Featured Propitiation do you know what it means?

This thread is interesting because I have noticed that the idea of penal substitution and propitiation is held in high esteem by Calvinist and Fundamentalist Christians alike. So when I hear that the concept is under attack recently I start asking why? And sure enough:

"Again, champions of Christus Victor often define the work of the cross as a nonviolent protest against social or institutional evils such as nationalism, militarism, or racism. The cross is understood not as a work of the love or grace of God but rather of the powers of evil that God overcomes".
Christus Victor: The Salvation of God and the Cross of Christ - Fuller Studio

If you haven't seen the other thread about the Christus Victor theory of atonement this may be confusing but what I suspected all along was that, if penal substitution is under attack recently, and from areas that are not known to be theologically precise then you can bet that the real reason will be politics."

 

is makes them UNBIBLICAL on this Fundamental Doctrine. The Penal Substituation Atonement of Jesus Christ, is most certainly not a "theory", as some wrongly assume, but Biblical FACT.

Those who reject or deny this, and against the Bible.

 

"Satisfaction of God's wrath" was a concept unknown until Anselm. I wonder how it feels for a Baptist to share so much with Romanism.

 

So, is it politics that the EOC has held to Christus Victor from its beginning until today?

 

The NT, early church, church of the first millennium, and EOC, as well as many Anabaptists, would disagree. PSA is an invention of legalist Reformers -- it is a product of its times. It has nothing to do with original Christianity.

 

You denial of the truth does not invalidate it!

 

Its much more biblical then Christ is Victor or Moral govt views!

 

This is a false argument.
Historical Reflections on Substitutionary Atonement - Fuller Studio

As to the sharing so much with Romanism. Of course we share quite a bit. Some of the earliest and most basic confessions are shared. The idea that love and good works must follow saving faith is shared except Romanists mix it into justification. Years ago I stumbled across some writing on the Trinity by then Cardinal Ratzinger and thought it was pretty good. I have Thomas Kempis "The Imitation of Christ" and love it. I watch "Father Brown" mysteries, like the priest in "Les Miserables" and of course the fly fishing priest in "The Quiet Man". It took Martin Luther over a year after posting the 95 theses to finally leave the Roman church. I'm willing to be patient with you too.

 

Notice I said "recently". We live in a day when few people bother to be theologically precise. So when I start hearing that there is a sudden popular interest in an old theory I think there will be an alternative reason - an it is usually political. By the way, JonC is theologically precise and I do not in any way want to infer that he has anything else in view but theological accuracy. But the original article I linked shows that politics is a reason for the "RECENT" attacks on PSA. Just think, if you can wipe out Calvinism and Fundamentalism you can take over the infrastructure of the denominations and have a very effective political force. I have watched the T4G conferences, and the Gospel Coalition moving quickly to peel off conservatives from "acceptable" Christianity.

 

Some in the early church taught the Ransom Theory of the Atonement as fact, that Jesus Christ paid a "ransom" to the devil for the lost souls of sinners! This is completely against what the Bible Teaches.

Some in the early church, also accepted some of the "Apocryphal" books Inspired by God the Holy Spirit, and actually used them for their doctrines!

HOW can you say that there were "biblical"?

 

This is baloney as has been explained. But two comments. For a Roman Catholic to bring up Eastern Orthodoxy is rich since they excommunicated each other years ago. But more importantly, Anabaptists should not be connected with modern day Baptists. We are far apart in doctrine and any direct influence of actual Anabaptists on modern day Baptists is hard to prove.

 

Heresy had crept in early on even among some Ecf!

 

as it has till this very day, which can be seen from some of the posts here on BB!

 

you mean the series made by the BBC? This is mostly complete rubbish!

 

Yeah, but you ought to see the stuff that's on over here! I watch it for theological insight. For marriage advice I watch "Keeping up Appearances".

 

Amazing how many Protestants don't seem to realize what they share with Roman Catholicism. The Reformation didn't reform the RC view of atonement, just took it, expanded it, and made it worse. One thing I will not engage you on is your personal attacks. I guess it's just part of your character that you can't help. However, I know that both of us are still on our way to total sanctification, neither of us having arrived yet.

 

then you might like this? Hetty Wainthropp Investigates - Wikipedia

 

this explains your "theology" on here!