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Featured Ignoring Bad Lyrics

Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by Dr. Bob, Mar 5, 2022.

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  1. Dr. Bob

    Dr. Bob Administrator
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    I condemn songs that teach false doctrine. I even dropped using some hymns in church because of weak or poor theology. I love music and proud of teaching others to be careful of "Christian" music that is of questionable value.

    So, this morning, on parole from FB jail, I am listening to Mozart and humming along to his 1791 Motet in D (most beautiful, worshipful music) and my bride asked what the lyrics were saying. I had paid little attention to the Latin, so translated the title for her, "Ave Verum Corpus" - this is the true body.

    She followed up, asking what does that mean?

    Well, it is a Eucharistic chant (as the priest holds up the wafer in holy communion) written by Pope Innocent III in the 13th Century. It teaches damnable heresy.

    Oh, my.
     
    #1 Dr. Bob, Mar 5, 2022
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  2. Reynolds

    Reynolds Well-Known Member
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    A lot of the music has bad lyrics. Bugs me too.
     
    #2 Reynolds, Mar 5, 2022
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  3. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    Yes....I did the same with Pink Floyd :Wink.

    Mozart is a little over my head. I lean towards impressionism.

    One of my favorite compositions is Ravel's Boléro. I like the repetitiveness and the almost simplicity of the work (I find it oddly comforting). But its subject (when written for a ballet) is perhaps a bit...scandalous.

    Another of my favorites is Images (composed his contemporary, Debussy). Debussy basically paints a picture of a visit (a visit he never actually took) to Spain.

    What matters more - the ideas a composition contains or the way it is recieved?
     
    #3 JonC, Mar 5, 2022
  4. Reynolds

    Reynolds Well-Known Member
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    Song is great until the middle. When it says 'Didnt you say church should be more like a hospital?" it was all downhill from there.
     
    #4 Reynolds, Mar 5, 2022
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  5. AustinC

    AustinC Well-Known Member

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    I have SiriusXM in my van. There are 4 Christian radio stations. One contemporary, one gospel, one southern gospel, and one preaching. When I listen to the songs on the three music channels, I find that one in ten songs is Godward and theologically sound. The other 9 are all about the human experience and what happened to that human. Most are free will, man determines God's action, songs that cheapen the nature and the grace of God.
    When I open up the hymnal of my youth, from the IFCA church I grew up in, I am appalled by the vast majority of hymns that were just pathetic theology...if theology was even a purpose for the hymn.
    An example of a terrible song: "I Come To The Garden Alone." It's just a sentimental, sappy, song with zero theological value. People sing it because it makes them feel good, not because it teaches anything about God.
    So, yeah, Christianity has a vast array of terrible songs that will never be sung in heaven.
     
    #5 AustinC, Mar 5, 2022
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  6. Squire Robertsson

    Squire Robertsson Administrator
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    My take is many of the songs with low to zero theological content is they were composed for singing on grandpa's or Uncle Fred's front porch, not in a church meeting.
     
    #6 Squire Robertsson, Mar 5, 2022
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  7. Dr. Bob

    Dr. Bob Administrator
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    I did seminars in many churches on a biblical view of music. Music IS neutral - black notes on white paper. Just like lyrics are neutral - black letters on white paper.

    But what is done with that can be good, bad, neutral. And mediocre, vile, or lifting to the soul
     
    #7 Dr. Bob, Mar 5, 2022
  8. Dr. Bob

    Dr. Bob Administrator
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    Speaking to yourselves in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing and making melody in your heart to the Lord (Eph 5:19) gives us a basic outline for the church music

    Psalms = Scripture
    Hymns = from "celebrate", worship Who God is and What God has done
    Spiritual Songs = odes (pretty much any common lyric) but with disclaimer "spiritual", not carnal.

    So, church music is the Bible (not just the psalter) but to music, worship hymns focused on triune Godhead, and songs of praise, testimony, encouragement, cheristian living, missions, prayer (NOT worldly odes like "Coming Round the Mountain" or my wife's favorite song from Jr Church "Itsy Bitsy Spider".
     
    #8 Dr. Bob, Mar 5, 2022
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  9. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    I wonder how much theological content a song must have to make it right. We often complain about songs of personal experience (one of my favorites, "It is Well With My Soul", is based on personal experience).

    Can a song, like "In the Garden", not convey spiritual truth without being a theological work? It seems some psalms are written in a like manner.
     
    #9 JonC, Mar 5, 2022
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  10. Dr. Bob

    Dr. Bob Administrator
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    Ave Verum Corpus (Mozart) - King's College, Cambridge - YouTube
     
    #10 Dr. Bob, Mar 5, 2022
  11. Reynolds

    Reynolds Well-Known Member
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    I agree. The only songs I don't approve of are the ones who contain wrong theology.
     
    #11 Reynolds, Mar 5, 2022
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  12. Dr. Bob

    Dr. Bob Administrator
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    I truly LOVE so many genres of music, but many do NOT belong in our church and worship. They are individual choices, and we all are touched or enjoy sounds and artists, styles or eras. My kids said how thankful they were that we exposed them to all these sounds, but that we sought to keep the church a sacred haven for psalms, hymns, and spiritual songs.

    My sons both pastor and have a solid approach to music in their churches. Yes, they have drums and keyboards, guitars and worship team, not quite what I had. But careful about the choice of songs and words to be true in teaching and testimony. Makes me proud (tho sometimes need earplugs for volume :))
     
    #12 Dr. Bob, Mar 5, 2022
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  13. tyndale1946

    tyndale1946 Well-Known Member
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    When you sing "Jesus Paid It All"... All To Him I Owe... You know what you came to worship for and the song is your theological declaration... Brother Glen:)
     
    #13 tyndale1946, Mar 5, 2022
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  14. AustinC

    AustinC Well-Known Member

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    The Psalms speak of a human experience in light of a theological truth. They are not sentmental in their focus. A song can do this as well. It is when the song seeks to glorify the human where I draw a line.
    I heard a southern gospel song that gloried in how the man had defeated sin. It was all about that person making his way to God by his disciplined effort. (Wish I could recall the exact title) It was appalling to hear, yet most Christians in America wouldn't think twice and would applaud the vocal group for the song.
    Here's the lyrics to the Garden. There is no value, other than sentimentality.
    1 I come to the garden alone,
    While the dew is still on the roses;
    And the voice I hear, falling on my ear,
    The Son of God discloses.

    Refrain:
    And He walks with me, and He talks with me,
    And He tells me I am His own,
    And the joy we share as we tarry there,
    None other has ever known.

    2 He speaks, and the sound of His voice
    Is so sweet the birds hush their singing;
    And the melody that He gave to me
    Within my heart is ringing. [Refrain]

    3 I'd stay in the garden with Him
    Tho' the night around me be falling;
    But He bids me go; thro' the voice of woe,
    His voice to me is calling. [Refrain]
     
    #14 AustinC, Mar 5, 2022
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  15. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    Don't we all when we speak of our walk with the Lord.
     
    #15 JonC, Mar 5, 2022
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  16. AustinC

    AustinC Well-Known Member

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    No, we don't. I wish we did, but a vast amount of American Christians are theologically illiterate.
     
    #16 AustinC, Mar 5, 2022
  17. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    Maybe more of us would, if it were not for criticism amongst ourselves. Christians have a long history of attacking their own.
     
    #17 JonC, Mar 5, 2022
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  18. Salty

    Salty 20,000 Posts Club
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    I often say (because I heard someone else say it)
    The time most Baptists lie - is when they sing a hymnbook song.
     
    #18 Salty, Mar 5, 2022
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  19. Dr. Bob

    Dr. Bob Administrator
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    We could change some titles of hymns to reflect reality and NOT lie . . .

    Sweet 30 Seconds of Prayer

    Sitting on the Premises

    Come Thou Almighty Dollar

    No, Not Me

    I Surrender Some

    There Shall Be Sprinkles of Blessings

    Oh, How I Like Jesus

    Fill My Spoon, Lord

    I Love to Sing About Telling the Story

    Take My Life and Let Me Be

    It Is My Secret What God Can Do

    My Hope Is Built on Nothing Much
     
    #19 Dr. Bob, Mar 5, 2022
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  20. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    I remember when churches changed the song Fill my Cup from "till I want no more" to "till it overflows".

    It took me a long time to understand why (that some misunderstood "want").

    How about "we Wiseman from orient are, baring three kinds of gifts we come from afar". If we sing the "three kinds of" really fast I think we can fit it in. :Geek
     
    #20 JonC, Mar 5, 2022
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