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The Biblical Atonement (continued 3)
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Christ is identified as the Lamb of God who takes away the sins of the world.
Your theory adds God punishes the Lamb in our place.
The OT sacrifices did not take away sin. The lamb was a pass over event (both in the Exodus and in the sacrificial system).
We haven't. It still remains that God's Word does not state or teach Penal Substitution Theory.
There are number of sacrifices illuminating the aspects of Christ's one offering. We can speak of the guilt or trespass offerings where God's demand for repayment for trespass against Him is satisfied. This isn't theory. This is written.
But you want to speak of the passover lamb? Okay. Why was it killed?
It is theory that Christ experienced God's wrath instead of us. This was foreign to Christianity until the Reformation (it is reformed RCC doctrine).
The Father offered His Son as a sin offering. Christ was killed by the evil forces of this world (according to the will and predetermined plan of God). It was not only necessary that the Christ die, but also that the manner of death be a Roman cross (not under the Law).
And God vindicated Him - raised Him and glorified Him. He had to die to free us from the bonds of sin and death.
No theory, philosophy....or anything else needs to be added to God's Word.
37818
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It is definitive, there is what was finished prior to John 19:28. And declared in John 19:30 prior to Jesus' physical death. In understanding that to be the death of His soul, per Isaiah 53:10-12, and Matthew 20:28, ". . . and to give his life{soul} a ransom for many. . . ."
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Labels are not Scripture. You're avoiding the question.
There you go. Now, let's talk about the Sin Offering, not the Passover. What is the Law of the Sin Offering?
This is avoiding the the Law of the Offerings.
No, it isn't. The sacrifice was never to appease God's wrath. It was foreshadowing what was to come and God in His forbearance passing over their sins.
You have mistaken the OT sacrifice system for ANE paganism.
The sin offering was for unintentional sins. But the role of the sacrifice was the same. It foreshadows Christ.
You make two errors.
First, you have God mimicking ANE paganism in the sacrifice.
Second, you view the Criss through the Law rather than the Law testifying of what was to come.
The lamb was offered so that God, in His forbearance, would pass over sins committed. The lamb was not offered to appease God's wrath. The Hebrew religion was not pagan.
@Aaron
The issue is that you ( @Iconoclast & @Martin Marprelate as well) approach Scripture through reformed RCC doctrine. You have allowed the failure of the Reformers (trying to Reformers what was born apostate) to influence your understanding.
The RCC was never the body of Christ. There are Christians in that faith, just as there are Christians who affirm your form of RCC doctrine. But people are saved despite those errors, not through them.
As Christians we need to rely on Christ and test doctrine with Scripture as our measure, NOT reformed RCC doctrine.
The issue is that you ( @Iconoclast & @Martin Marprelate as well) approach Scripture through reformed RCC doctrine. You have allowed the failure of the Reformers (trying to Reformers what was born apostate) to influence your understanding.
The RCC was never the body of Christ. There are Christians in that faith, just as there are Christians who affirm your form of RCC doctrine. But people are saved despite those errors, not through them.
As Christians we need to rely on Christ and test doctrine with Scripture as our measure, NOT reformed RCC doctrine.
Whew. A lot of presumption in that post. You're basically saying that the sins didn't have to be paid for. They're merely overlooked. Let's slow down and go by the word of God as you insisted.
The Law of the Sin Offering is in Leviticus 4. The Burnt, Meat and Peace Offerings prescribed in the previous chapters were not for sin. They were for devotion. And even in devotion we need a substitute. Christ, our righteousness, is seen in those.
In the Sin and Trespass Offerings, we see Christ our sin. The Sin Offering was for sin in general: If a soul shall sin through ignorance against any of the commandments, vs 2. In contrast, the Trespass offerings prescribed in the following chapters were for specific acts of sin: if a soul sin, and hear the voice of swearing, 5:1; if a soul touch any unclean thing, 5:2; if a soul swear, pronouncing with his lips to do evil, 5:4; If a soul sin, and commit a trespass against the LORD, and lie unto his neighbour, 6:2 etc.
So the Sin Offering: when the penitent discovers that he is a sinner, he is commanded to bring an offering. There are varieties of offering prescribed depending upon the status and available resources of the penitent. There is instruction even in the varieties, but let's talk about the one for the common people, 4:27. A kid of the goats or a lamb, vs 32.
What was the offering for? The sin which the penitent sinned, vs 28. So, there was a debt incurred by the sin. This debt is accounted for in the Trespass offerings, but here, it is just acknowledged that there is a debt.
The penitent then lays his hand upon the head of the sin offering. What does that signify? The transfer of the sin of the penitent to the victim.
Why is this necessary? Otherwise, the penitent bears his own sin and can expect nothing from God but judgment and fiery indignation.
The lamb is then slain in the place of the burnt offering, but it is not burned on the altar. The fat is burned on the altar, showing that the victim itself was pleasing to YHWH, but the body, which is bearing the sins of the penitent, is taken outside the camp, banished from God's abode, and burned on the ground with its dung, its uncleanness.
The lamb took the judgment and fiery indignation reserved for the penitent.
Not at all. Sins have to be forgiven or the sinner remains condemned.
Of course the idea the innocent can be substituted for the guilty is pure paganism (sacrificing to appease the wrath of gods). This is why Scripture tells us it is an abomination to substitute the innocent for the guilty.
My point is your faith is more RCC than Christian.
The Bible does not advocate offerings to appease God's wrath. That is the pagan idea of sacrifice, but God is not manipulated.
Your misunderstanding of the OT (your additions to the OT) infects your understanding of the New Covenant.
Stop adding to Scripture. Remove the Latin view from your theology. Move away from RCC doctrine entirely and rely on God's Word. If you do then you will be in a more biblical position.
On the other side of the coin, sins have to be punished, or justice is not served.
The tresspass offering shows that God demands repayment for trespass against Him. Shall we go there too?
Really? Someone forgot to tell Peter, 1 Peter 3:18.
Besides, the entire sacrificial system is just that, the sinner bringing a spotless substitute for his sin.
Wondering how long the administration is going to tolerate the denial of Baptist faith, let alone the work of Christ, in the moderator pool.
Pure philosophy, not Scripture.
Hint - punishment for sins is mot the only way justice is served. God is just and the justifier of sinners - not because He violated His own law by substituting the just for the unjust in punishment.
Read your Bible without a reformed RCC lens and then let's discuss it.
God sending His Son in Love as the Divine substitute for the elect is the core of the gospel.....not a pagan concept...but God's design.
You need to explain the violence done unto the sacrifice, and the reason for its burning and exclusion from the altar.
Labels aren't Scripture. What does it mean to suffer for sins? Note: I didn't ask what it means to suffer for righteousness' sake. I asked, what does it mean to suffer for sins? The Just suffered for sins for the unjust.
The Trespass offering.
In the Trespass offering we see repayment and restitution for the damages caused by sin. Not a mere forebearance, but a demand for payment, a making of amends, i.e. appeasement, without which, there is no forgiveness.
Not only for the harm done unto the holy things of YHWH, but also unto the things of the penitent's neighbor; that is, to man.
Our sin, and its debt to God and to man, are paid for in the one offering of Christ.
In the Trespass offering we see repayment and restitution for the damages caused by sin. Not a mere forebearance, but a demand for payment, a making of amends, i.e. appeasement, without which, there is no forgiveness.
Leviticus 5:15-16 If a soul commit a trespass, and sin through ignorance, in the holy things of the LORD; then he shall bring for his trespass unto the LORD a ram without blemish out of the flocks, with thy estimation by shekels of silver, after the shekel of the sanctuary, for a trespass offering: And he shall make amends for the harm that he hath done in the holy thing, and shall add the fifth part thereto, and give it unto the priest: and the priest shall make an atonement for him with the ram of the trespass offering, and it shall be forgiven him.
The fifth part is a double tithe. The first tithe, the righteous requirement of the law, the second tithe, the debt incurred by sin.
Not only for the harm done unto the holy things of YHWH, but also unto the things of the penitent's neighbor; that is, to man.
Leviticus 6:5 Or all that about which he hath sworn falsely; he shall even restore it in the principal, and shall add the fifth part more thereto, and give it unto him to whom it appertaineth, in the day of his trespass offering.
Here it is revealed that in Christ's one offering, amends are made for the harm resulting from sin. To put it another way, the wages of sin are paid, the punitive damages are paid, and God's wrath, the just and righteous response to sin, is appeased.
Our sin, and its debt to God and to man, are paid for in the one offering of Christ.
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