Featured Did Jesus take on the wrath of God as propitiation for our sin?

Not really. You (and @AustinC ) read into Scripture.

I could say Moses striking the rock symbolizes Israel's rejection of the Cornerstone, of the Jews handing Christ over to suffer and die at tge hands of the wicked.

At least the illustration would be accurate (Scripture tells us it was tge evil of the World that caused Christ to suffer and die, and this was God's will).

But that, too, would be using Scripture rather than dervinf doctrine from Scripture.

The Ark is the same. Somebody (I can't remember who) equated the people downing as the wrath that we escape. They miss that Noah was not sinless.

 

Exactly. I have used that passage several times on this board.


And good point. This dying for our dins, the Just for the unjust, was HAVING BEEN PUT TO DEATH IN THE FLESH, BUT MADE ALIVE IN THE SPIRIT.

That alone is enough to prove Penal Substitution Theory a false doctrine.

1 Peter 3:17–22 For it is better, if God should will it so, that you suffer for doing what is right rather than for doing what is wrong. For Christ also died for sins once for all, the just for the unjust, so that He might bring us to God, having been put to death in the flesh, but made alive in the spirit;


Believe God's Word.

 

Yes.

He shared in our infirmity.....we deserve the infirmity......He doesn't.

 

This is a false claim, but most likely due to a misunderstanding on your part @Aaron .

@agedman and I never once implied that sinners do not deserve wrath. As Scripture tells us - it is appointed man once to die and then the Judgment.

And @canadyjd offered another rebuttal to PenalSubstitutionTheory- For Christ also died for sins once for all, the just for the unjust, so that He might bring us to God, having been put to death in the flesh, but made alive in the spirit.

There is a reason you can only "defend" Penal Substitution Theory by theorizing about Scripture and never by Scripture itself. It is contrary to God's Word.

 

Infirmity is the bondage under which we were enslaved (the wages of sin).

You are assuming Moses is the Father.

 

Yes, a physical death - the flesh (as @canadyjd proved by offering "having been put to death in the flesh").

You seem discontent with Scripture, with what is written in its text. Why? God does not need the help of RCC doctrine (once removed).

 

For a couple of reasons.

1. Words have meaning. The Just dying for the unjust simply does not mean the Just dying instead of the unjust.

2. The rest of the passage from which you pulled the verse specifies this death was a physical death....and it is appointed to man once to die and then the Judgment (we still die physically).

I guess you didn't read the entire passage....or didn't realize it stood in opposition to Penal Substitution Theory.

 

It means "for". The Just died in the flesh for the unjust. And "on behalf of" is not substitution (it means in one's interest or....as Scripture indicates....as a representative...like the "Last Adam").

 

You are skipping words.

Isaiah 53:4–5 Surely our griefs He Himself bore,
And our sorrows He carried; Yet we ourselves esteemed Him stricken, smitten of God, and afflicted. But He was pierced through for our transgressions, He was crushed for our iniquities; The chastening for our well-being fell upon Him, and by His scourging we are healed.