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Do you agree?

Dr. Bob

Dr. Bob

Administrator
Administrator
Reynolds said:
Church is a gathering place of the saints. It is not a hospital.
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Amen! For too long our churches want to function as an evangelism station, centering programs and function on "goats" instead of a safe-haven and training center for "sheep". Preaching is often simplistic "milk" aimed at trying to get people invited in to be saved, instead of "bread" and "meat" to nourish and grow strong people who are already saved.
 
Salty

Salty

20,000 Posts Club
Administrator
Could be what I was trying to say - is that an unsaved person may see individual Christians as "the church"
 
J

JesusFan

Well-Known Member
Reformed1689 said:
No I do not agree. The church service is not to evangelize the lost. That is our work outside of the gathering of believers.
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It is not our primary :mission: when gathered together, but we should not be turning aside those who are lost and coming in to hear about the Lord Jesus now!
 
Reformed1689

Reformed1689

Well-Known Member
JesusFan said:
It is not our primary :mission: when gathered together, but we should not be turning aside those who are lost and coming in to hear about the Lord Jesus now!
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If you are talking about a one off someone comes in and visits, yes I agree. But if they make a habit of coming they need to be qualified to be there.
 
R

Revmitchell

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
When I was pastoring in NM and just outside the Rez we would often get drunks who would want to come in out of the cold. Some of them would soil themselves and the pew. The other members, some of them, wanted them not allowed to come in. They were mad that they stained the pews. I spent each and every time cleaning those pews. I would have done battle with my members over rejecting them. Nothing more ungodly.

In my first church in south central Florida we looked Hurricane Charlie in the eye. In the middle of the storm lost, Hispanic, grove workers came to the church for shelter. Some of them were hurt and needed medical care. I had the wife of the chairman of the deacons chew me out for doing that. See I allowed them to use "their" dishes and food to feed them and "their" sunday school supplies to entertain the children while the storm raged through the night. I told them that if I had to burn every table in the building for fire wood to minister to them I would.

Jesus dealt with those who wanted to separate themselves from the sinners. Yet he reached out to them and loved them. The pharisaical attitude I am seeing on this board in regards to sinners is both shocking and surprising. In my church sinners, much like Jesus reached out to, are welcome to attend as many services as they wish. I will do battle with anyone who tries to do otherwise. I am heart broken at what I see posted here. I didnt know such attitudes were this common. I thought only churches like Westboro Baptist Church took such attitudes. People should not have to get cleaned up to come to church. When we do that we are telling people that they need to get cleaned up to come to God. They dont know the difference.

Attending services and being a member are not the same thing. People living in unrepentant sin should not be members. That is a far cry from just attending. Shame on all of you.
 
Deacon

Deacon

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Years ago an alcoholic called the church and the call was directed to the pastor.

The man asked a softball question, “What can I do to be saved?”
​
That began an association with drug and alcohol abuse victims that reinvigorated the people in our church.
That very day he committed his life to Christ.
The man joined a Bible study.
He quit smoking (no one ostracized him because of it).
Within two years he asked if he could start an AA group at the church.
He added about 30 people to our congregation over the next few years. Many now serving faithfully, others falling away.

The philosophy of my church began when someone asked the pastor, “If your church suddenly disappeared, would anyone in the community miss it?

We open our doors to almost anyone who asks… Alcoholic’s Anonymous, Boy and Girl Scouts, the local High School Flag team, various women’s groups, a small Korean Congregation, a Christian Motorcycle Club, etc.

The idea is to give members of the church many opportunities to witness the grace of our Lord.

This can be done in church or outside the church.

Are we a hospital? It certainly isn’t the best way to describe a church, but I’ve heard the comparison.

A hospital is a gathering of health professionals whose goal is to heal the sick.
The staff works both in the hospital and out of the hospital.
We work day and night, in good weather and in bad weather.
Most of the staff are healthy but some of come to work feeling a bit ill.
They are dedicated to one purpose.
​
Our church has first time visitors regularly. The congregation is aware, greeting and befriending them. (They don’t need to stand up and identify themselves during the service, lol)

Rob
 
Reformed1689

Reformed1689

Well-Known Member
Revmitchell said:
Jesus dealt with those who wanted to separate themselves from the sinners. Yet he reached out to them and loved them. The pharisaical attitude I am seeing on this board in regards to sinners is both shocking and surprising. In my church sinners, much like Jesus reached out to, are welcome to attend as many services as they wish. I will do battle with anyone who tries to do otherwise. I am heart broken at what I see posted here. I didnt know such attitudes were this common. I thought only churches like Westboro Baptist Church took such attitudes. People should not have to get cleaned up to come to church. When we do that we are telling people that they need to get cleaned up to come to God. They dont know the difference.
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I think you are confusing separating yourselves from sinners, as in having nothing to do with them, and not bringing them into your inner circle. I am not arguing for non-evangelism. I am also not arguing for turning away sinners if they come to visit. But I am also a firm believer in church discipline. If a Christian member of the church is living in open sin church discipline should be enacted for that member as well. The church gathering is for believers.
 
T

tyndale1946

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
When Jesus left the 99 and went after the one who had gone astray... Was it a goat?... NO!... It was a sheep!... In this world we have trials and tribulation... Some greater some lesser but don't ever think a member who has not been dealt the cards like others have and have fallen, does not belong to Christ... One of his children was hurt and when one of his children is hurt, he expects other of his children to step in... You have the love of God in you... So show it!... You going to turn a brother or sister away because they dragged you out of your comfort zone?... You are disciplining a sheep no matter what condition they are in... Who are the righteousness?... One who can quote scripture verbatim?... One who knows doctrine at the drop of a hat?... One who knows Greek and Hebrew?... One who has been baptized?... One who can claim a denomination and say to others, you don't believe like I do, I don't even know if you are saved?... And brethren I have been on here a long time and I have heard it all... I've been in church for over 50 years, does that make me righteous?... NO!... Jesus Christ 100% made me righteousness and because I am a sheep the LORD expect me to show his righteousness to others... Even out of my comfort zone... Brother Glen:)

Matthew 25: 31 When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:

32 And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats:

33 And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left.

34 Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:

35 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in:

36 Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me.

37 Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, and fed thee? or thirsty, and gave thee drink?

38 When saw we thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and clothed thee?

39 Or when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee?

40 And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me.
 
37818

37818

Well-Known Member
tyndale1946 said:
New When Jesus left the 99 and went after the one who had gone astray... Was it a goat?... NO!... It was a sheep!...
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The use of the terminology "sheep" and "goats" refers to their finial state's. From God's point of view not ours. From our perspectives these matters may not be settled. 2 Corinthians 13:5, 2 Peter 1:4-11.
 
J

JesusFan

Well-Known Member
Reformed1689 said:
I think you are confusing separating yourselves from sinners, as in having nothing to do with them, and not bringing them into your inner circle. I am not arguing for non-evangelism. I am also not arguing for turning away sinners if they come to visit. But I am also a firm believer in church discipline. If a Christian member of the church is living in open sin church discipline should be enacted for that member as well. The church gathering is for believers.
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The main purpose of it should be, but we can still have an open door policy towards the Lost who desire to come in!
 
agedman

agedman

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Dr. Bob said:
The church is an organized body of believers, NOT individual believers. Individuals comprise the body, but are not the body itself.

I am a citizen of the USA but I am not the USA.
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At first I would agree with this thinking, but then I began to consider a practical application as it relates to "Ambassadors" (for we are ambassadors for Christ."

Ambassadors, on foreign soil, do not just represent America, but indeed are considered America. This is part of the thinking behind "diplomatic immunity."

Diplomats that carry the diplomatic immunity must also be recognized by the foreign leaders in a formal meeting ceremony. This is not unlike the statement by the demon that said, “Jesus I know, and I know about Paul, but who are you?”(Acts 19)
We, as believers, live in a foreign land. We are citizens of the Kingdom, and as such are the Kingdom while in this land. We have "diplomatic immunity" from being charged as if a citizen of that land.

So I ponder, just how the distinction between the member of the body while gathered and not just a representative but the body while not gathered.

I have got to work through this some more.
 
agedman

agedman

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Revmitchell said:
When I was pastoring in NM and just outside the Rez we would often get drunks who would want to come in out of the cold. Some of them would soil themselves and the pew. The other members, some of them, wanted them not allowed to come in. They were mad that they stained the pews. I spent each and every time cleaning those pews. I would have done battle with my members over rejecting them. Nothing more ungodly.

In my first church in south central Florida we looked Hurricane Charlie in the eye. In the middle of the storm lost, Hispanic, grove workers came to the church for shelter. Some of them were hurt and needed medical care. I had the wife of the chairman of the deacons chew me out for doing that. See I allowed them to use "their" dishes and food to feed them and "their" sunday school supplies to entertain the children while the storm raged through the night. I told them that if I had to burn every table in the building for fire wood to minister to them I would.

Jesus dealt with those who wanted to separate themselves from the sinners. Yet he reached out to them and loved them. The pharisaical attitude I am seeing on this board in regards to sinners is both shocking and surprising. In my church sinners, much like Jesus reached out to, are welcome to attend as many services as they wish. I will do battle with anyone who tries to do otherwise. I am heart broken at what I see posted here. I didnt know such attitudes were this common. I thought only churches like Westboro Baptist Church took such attitudes. People should not have to get cleaned up to come to church. When we do that we are telling people that they need to get cleaned up to come to God. They dont know the difference.

Attending services and being a member are not the same thing. People living in unrepentant sin should not be members. That is a far cry from just attending. Shame on all of you.
Click to expand...
This is not only a fine personal testimony, but one that I wish so very many would emulate!

I came as a youth from a church that turned away folks, the pastor and I didn't.

Rev. As you testified concerning your actions, the Scriptures from our Lord also validates. We are to be "salt" - Salty salt. And one doesn't use salt other than to preserve, spice, and help remove ice. (I think there is a sermon somewhere in there.) :)
 
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