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Featured Magic Blood Theory

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by AustinC, Mar 9, 2022.

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  1. percho

    percho Well-Known Member
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    I guess it goes back to an old thread relative to whether 2 Cor 5:21 is made sin or made sin offering and I still go with made, sin.

    I believe God (the Father) making the Son of God, sin is the wrath of God poured out on the Son, resulting in the Son pouring out his soul unto death (dismissing the spirit of him in the blood unto the hands of the Father) being unclean for three days relative to the Father. At the end of three days, regeneration of the Son washed away our sins in the blood of him when he was made sin.

    Consider: And if Christ be not raised, (regenerated, out of the dead. col 1:18 who is beginning first-born out of the dead ones) your faith is vain; ye are yet in your sins. Your sins were not washed away in his blood.

    Now consider:
    Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others. Eph 2:3
    And such were some of you: but ye are washed, (Because of the raised Christ out of the dead) but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God. 1 Cor 6:11

    Actually Rev 1:5 says the same thing.
    And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood,
     
    #21 percho, Mar 10, 2022
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  2. AustinC

    AustinC Well-Known Member

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    No, Jon, they didn't pay a price. They just died by being murdered because they enlisted in the military and someone killed them. War is just a big murder game where people fight to control what they think is theirs. So...no price paid. Just another human murdered.
    Is that what you are suggesting Jesus death was? Merely an innocent person, murdered because he obeyed God?
    Jon, you cannot use the term "paid the price" without actually having a buyer and seller where there is an exchange of something to make the transaction. That's what the term actually and literally means. But, you seem intent on cheapening this to something that didn't really purchase anything.

    Honestly, you make no sense.
     
    #22 AustinC, Mar 10, 2022
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  3. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast Well-Known Member
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    nonsense.
     
    #23 Iconoclast, Mar 10, 2022
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  4. AustinC

    AustinC Well-Known Member

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    So, the actual red and white blood cells of Jesus were holy and pure and God the Father, sending us this holy and pure blood out of love, mercy, and compassion for us, just automatically saves anyone who believes this?
     
    #24 AustinC, Mar 10, 2022
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  5. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast Well-Known Member
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    yes exactly. Read any of his posts...he does the same thing...say the words divorced from any meaning.
     
    #25 Iconoclast, Mar 10, 2022
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  6. JesusFan

    JesusFan Well-Known Member

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    It does seem to very speculative "philosophy!"
     
    #26 JesusFan, Mar 10, 2022
  7. AustinC

    AustinC Well-Known Member

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    So @DaveXR650 nailed it. You essentially endorse penal substitutionary atonement, but hate the label.
     
    #27 AustinC, Mar 10, 2022
  8. JesusFan

    JesusFan Well-Known Member

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    Unless Jesus died in our and in our place, would have accomplished nothing!
     
    #28 JesusFan, Mar 10, 2022
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  9. JesusFan

    JesusFan Well-Known Member

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    Well, those who refuse to accept Psa do deny the wrath of God!
     
    #29 JesusFan, Mar 10, 2022
  10. JesusFan

    JesusFan Well-Known Member

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    The death of Christ spared and saved us from the wrath of God due to us, as he purchased us back into His kingdom thru His shed blood!
     
    #30 JesusFan, Mar 10, 2022
  11. percho

    percho Well-Known Member
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    Methinks that hits nail on the head. Jesus bought back our life through his death, yet there would be no, "through," except by the grace of God (the Father) in giving the promise of God, who can not lie, to the Son of God born of woman. Gal 3:16-21

    If Christ, The Son of the living God, be not raised, you are still in your sins. 1 Cor 15:17
     
    #31 percho, Mar 10, 2022
  12. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    No. We all pay prices for our choices.

    The word "price" is the cost at which something is obtained"

    "Pay" is to "suffer a loss or other misfortune as a consequence of an action."

    Jesus paid for us with His own blood. He did not collect His blood and give it to somebody.

    I am not sure if English is your first language, but either way you should invest in a dictionary.
     
    #32 JonC, Mar 10, 2022
  13. DaveXR650

    DaveXR650 Well-Known Member

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    I had asked Jon for some references and he gave me a few. I haven't had much time but I looked at the Mennonite website re the atonement and they kind of explain what he's doing. I think it's so close that I seem to be unable to debate it because I can't grasp the subtle differences. I was in a Missionary church for a long time and they had a connection to the Mennonites which is why I looked at their site first.
     
    #33 DaveXR650, Mar 10, 2022
  14. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    Yet it is true. Just like you ate unable to find what you believe is taught in Scripture you will find yourself unable to find any of the examples expressing your theory.

    Your denial of the Truth has no effect on the Truth itself.
     
    #34 JonC, Mar 10, 2022
  15. JesusFan

    JesusFan Well-Known Member

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    We own to God the father a sin debt for breaking His own law
     
    #35 JesusFan, Mar 10, 2022
  16. JesusFan

    JesusFan Well-Known Member

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    Still seems to me like very close to NT Wright and the NPP view!
     
    #36 JesusFan, Mar 10, 2022
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  17. JesusFan

    JesusFan Well-Known Member

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    When and how is the wrath that you and I deserve in judgement get propitiated?
     
    #37 JesusFan, Mar 10, 2022
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  18. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    In your and his view, perhaps. If ypu mean by Penal Substitution Theory what is written in Scripture, then yes - that is what I believe. I have no issue, for example, with the SBC's resolution confirming Penal Substitution Theory because it just provides passages to contradict Weaver's "bloodless Atonement".

    I do not like the label because to many Penal Substitution Theory means another gospel....an addition to Scripture (that God punished Jesus instead of punishing us, Christ experienced Gid's wrath, Christ's death appeased God, etc.).

    Since your view of Penal Substitution Theory is my posted view, then yes....we completely agree (of course). We merely disagree on the label.

    And you have my apologies for assuming you meant that you believed the false doctrine I call "Penal Substitution Theory").
     
    #38 JonC, Mar 10, 2022
  19. Duckie

    Duckie Member

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    No

    Luke 1:26-38

    But Mary said to the angel, “How can this be, since I have no relations with a man?” And the angel said to her in reply, “The Holy Spirit will come upon you, and the power of the Most High will overshadow you. Therefore the child to be born will be called holy, the Son of God."

    You can't try to put a scientific explanation on a miracle that was prophesied in the Old Testament. If you are you are not understanding what a miracle is.

    Jesus said, "You study the Scriptures diligently because you think that in them you have eternal life. These are the very Scriptures that testify about me, yet you refuse to come to me to have life." (John 5:39-40)


    The wisdom of this world is foolishness to God and the things of the spirit can only be discerned by the spirit. Our limited human understanding doesn't limit what He does. He doesn't live within any boundaries of what man considers possible.

    In sciencey terms, you are an observer, but you are not the designer. The designer knows more than you and He doesn't care if you understand how the gift works, He just wants you to accept it.

    That's where the faith stuff comes in
     
    #39 Duckie, Mar 10, 2022
  20. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast Well-Known Member
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    when i get on my laptop, i will show it from post after post.
    I have to drop a stop in Auburn Hills, then get over to Grand Rapids.later on.that is when it will happen.
    you will see for yourself what every one has said.
     
    #40 Iconoclast, Mar 10, 2022
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