Magic Blood Theory

[AustinC]

No. We all pay prices for our choices.

The word "price" is the cost at which something is obtained"

"Pay" is to "suffer a loss or other misfortune as a consequence of an action."

Jesus paid for us with His own blood. He did not collect His blood and give it to somebody.

I am not sure if English is your first language, but either way you should invest in a dictionary.

John, you are trying to redefine terms and use them in a different meaning. That's essentially revisionist history where you make the text say something the original author never said. You have created general phrases out of precise language. Your use of price and pay completely abandons the actual meaning. Therefore you are misusing the language and ultimately being deceptive with the words you use.

Pay and price are economic terms. The seller sets a price. The buyer pays the set and agreed upon price.

If Jesus paid for us, there must be a seller whom he paid the required price. The currency you are saying was used is...blood. This is a transaction. In this case the transaction is a Slave to sin being purchased at a set price and being transferred to being a slave to righteousness.

 

[JonC]

when i get on my laptop, i will show it from post after post.
I have to drop a stop in Auburn Hills, then get over to Grand Rapids.later on.that is when it will happen.
you will see for yourself what every one has said.

Don't bother. We all know you can't (we have been down this road before".

You will post men saying "Jesus died for us, the just for the unjust" or something like that and declare they believed Jesus experienced God's wrath instead of us. You will post partial excerpts of Justin Martyr (ignoring the context he gives of "the human family" and pretend he affirmed Christ was punished by God in our place.

We have been down this road many times. Each time you and Martin are shut down. You leave believing you won some argument.

You can ignore the fact Augustine declared that the idea Christ's death appeased God a strong heresy alienating the holder from Christianity. But that does not change the fact this is what he taught (and we have his writings).

But that does not matter. You are once again drifting from Scripture

If you want to respond with something then respond with actual Scripture stating Christ's death appeased God, that God punishes the Just instead of the unjust, that Christ died instead of us, or that Christ experienced God's wrath instead of us.

But you won't because you can't. Your faith here is in man, in humanistic philosophy...not in God's Word, in "what is written".

 

[JonC]

John, you are trying to redefine terms and use them in a different meaning. That's essentially revisionist history where you make the text say something the original author never said. You have created general phrases out of precise language. Your use of price and pay completely abandons the actual meaning. Therefore you are misusing the language and ultimately being deceptive with the words you use.

Pay and price are economic terms. The seller sets a price. The buyer pays the set and agreed upon price.

If Jesus paid for us, there must be a seller whom he paid the required price. The currency you are saying was used is...blood. This is a transaction. In this case the transaction is a Slave to sin being purchased at a set price and being transferred to being a slave to righteousness.

No. Words have meaning. Use a dictionary next time. There is no transaction (no paganism, no 16th century moral philosophy).

 

[AustinC]

when i get on my laptop, i will show it from post after post.
I have to drop a stop in Auburn Hills, then get over to Grand Rapids.later on.that is when it will happen.
you will see for yourself what every one has said.

Give a honk to my nephew and his wife if you cross US131 on I-196 in GR.

 

[Iconoclast]

Don't bother. We all know you can't (we have been down this road before".

You will post men saying "Jesus died for us, the just for the unjust" or something like that and declare they believed Jesus experienced God's wrath instead of us. You will post partial excerpts of Justin Martyr (ignoring the context he gives of "the human family" and pretend he affirmed Christ was punished by God in our place.

We have been down this road many times. Each time you and Martin are shut down. You leave believing you won some argument.

You can ignore the fact Augustine declared that the idea Christ's death appeased God a strong heresy alienating the holder from Christianity. But that does not change the fact this is what he taught (and we have his writings).

But that does not matter. You are once again drifting from Scripture

If you want to respond with something then respond with actual Scripture stating Christ's death appeased God, that God punishes the Just instead of the unjust, that Christ died instead of us, or that Christ experienced God's wrath instead of us.

But you won't because you can't. Your faith here is in man, in humanistic philosophy...not in God's Word, in "what is written".

I can....and I will expose your error repeatedly.
I will do so from scripture propetly understood.
I will not be using any of the bogus sources you suggest here.
We will see that in fact everything you suggest we do, is in fact what you have already done.lol....I will not even use the funny emoji so you have nothing to whine about.

 

[Martin Marprelate]

God sent His Son, offered Him as a sin offering, was pleased to crush Him, to put Him to grief, forsook Him to suffer and die, raised Him on the 3rd day and glorified Him, giving Him a name above every name.

This is fun. On quite a recent thread, JonC and @agedman would not have it that God crushed the Lord Jesus and put Him to grief, yet here it is, boldly admitted, but without a word of apology for misleading us.
And this makes a lovely pair with the claim that 'My God, My God why have You forsaken Me' really means, "My God, My God, you haven't forsaken Me.' In a post a few weeks ago, this claim was also quietly dropped.
So keep at it, brothers! The truth is slowly winning.

 

[Iconoclast]

Give a honk to my nephew and his wife if you cross US131 on I-196 in GR.

currently in novi....hope to depart soon.

 

[Iconoclast]

Give a honk to my nephew and his wife if you cross US131 on I-196 in GR.

Greg Nichols used to Pastor a solid church there. He teaches at several
seminaries, so not sure of his current status.
Message: “Devotional” from Greg Nichols | Reformed Baptist Network

 

[AustinC]

No. Words have meaning. Use a dictionary next time. There is no transaction (no paganism, no 16th century moral philosophy).

John now you deny basic economics. It's obvious you have created a revisionist history and theory that only you hold. Moreso you are demanding that everyone use your revisions or they are wrong.
You are free to be a revisionist, but no one is obligated to agree with your revisions that redefine terms.

 

[AustinC]

Greg Nichols used to Pastor a solid church there. He teaches at several
seminaries, so not sure of his current status.

Don't know him, but I am glad there are some solid churches. I will date myself here, but I went to a now defunct fundamentalist bible institute that merged with GR Baptist college (Cornerstone U) and attended Calvary Undenom when it was on Michigan Ave. Pastor Gardner was preaching. I was a full free willer at that time. Reformers were just those folk who drank alcohol from Monday through Saturday and played holy on Sunday. My goodness I was an ignorant kid...
But, I still have a soft spot for GR.

 

[percho]

No

Luke 1:26-38

But Mary said to the angel, “How can this be, since I have no relations with a man?” And the angel said to her in reply, “The Holy Spirit will come upon you, and the power of the Most High will overshadow you. Therefore the child to be born will be called holy, the Son of God."

You can't try to put a scientific explanation on a miracle that was prophesied in the Old Testament. If you are you are not understanding what a miracle is.

Jesus said, "You study the Scriptures diligently because you think that in them you have eternal life. These are the very Scriptures that testify about me, yet you refuse to come to me to have life." (John 5:39-40)




The wisdom of this world is foolishness to God and the things of the spirit can only be discerned by the spirit. Our limited human understanding doesn't limit what He does. He doesn't live within any boundaries of what man considers possible.

In sciencey terms, you are an observer, but you are not the designer. The designer knows more than you and He doesn't care if you understand how the gift works, He just wants you to accept it.

That's where the faith stuff comes in

Nothing in my post contradicted a miracle taking place within the oocyte of the virgin Mary. God was the cause through Spirit.

ἐν αὐτῇ γεννηθὲν ἐκ πνεύματός ἐστιν ἁγίου
in her being generated (Aor Pas - in the past and continuing unto?) out of Spirit is holy

I would not only call that a miracle but also call it, μονογενῆ.

BTW I know, no Greek so I may understand incorrectly but that looks like what the Word says, to me.

 

[SovereignGrace]

Literally being God's only son placed in a womb by the Holy Spirit, it isn't that His blood is "magic" but Holy and pure; undeserving of punishment, but sent because of the Father's love, mercy, and compassion for us.

If Christ’s blood was holy and pure then He wasn’t fully human. He was a deified human.

 

[Duckie]

If Christ’s blood was holy and pure then He wasn’t fully human. He was a deified human.

Pretty much all of Hebrews 1 sums it up I think

 

[JonC]

I can....and I will expose your error repeatedly.
I will do so from scripture propetly understood.
I will not be using any of the bogus sources you suggest here.
We will see that in fact everything you suggest we do, is in fact what you have already done.lol....I will not even use the funny emoji so you have nothing to whine about.

I welcome your attempt to engage our disagreement via Scripture. Sorry if I jumped the gun and thought you were going to men and disproven propaganda.

It is very important that we abide by the Word of God, by "what is written" and what is written again.

I look forward to you providing actual passages stating:

1. Christ's death appeased God's wrath
2. Christ died instead of us
3. Christ suffered God's wrath
4. God substituted the Just for the unjust
5. Christ died other than a physical death
6. Sins are transferable from one to another
7. God cannot forgive sin except He punish sin


I am not asking that Scripture state those all together. Please feel free to provide the passages as you find them.

The only thing is they must state what you claim they teach (the test of teaching is the Word of God....as Jesus said - "what is written".

 

[JonC]

I can....and I will expose your error repeatedly.
I will do so from scripture propetly understood.
I will not be using any of the bogus sources you suggest here.
We will see that in fact everything you suggest we do, is in fact what you have already done.lol....I will not even use the funny emoji so you have nothing to whine about.

I welcome your attempt to engage our disagreement via Scripture. Sorry if I jumped the gun and thought you were going to men and disproven propaganda.

It is very important that we abide by the Word of God, by "what is written" and what is written again.

I look forward to you providing actual passages stating:

1. Christ's death appeased God's wrath
2. Christ died instead of us
3. Christ suffered God's wrath
4. God substituted the Just for the unjust
5. Christ died other than a physical death
6. Sins are transferable from one to another
7. God cannot forgive sin except He punish sin


I am not asking that Scripture state those all together. Please feel free to provide the passages as you find them.

The only thing is they must state what ypu claim they teach (the test of teaching is the Word of God....as Jesus said - "what is written".

 

[JonC]

John now you deny basic economics. It's obvious you have created a revisionist history and theory that only you hold. Moreso you are demanding that everyone use your revisions or they are wrong.
You are free to be a revisionist, but no one is obligated to agree with your revisions that redefine terms.

Uh....no. You are assuming Scripture was speaking of economics. Instead it was speaking of the price paid (suffering and death).

Soldiers do pay a price. I pay a price now for not wearing knee pads. And we were purchased with a price.

Your idea that God paid somebody for us is rather bewildering. Scripture says we were in bondage to sin and death. So obviously you must think the two ...Mr. Sin and Mr. Death...recieved some type of payment????

I did not make up the definition I provided. It is the definition of the word.

Your theology is simply all over the place. You are mot quite a Calvinist, not quite Reforned, and not quite affirming Ransom Theory..... an amalgamation of the unbiblical parts.

 

[JesusFan]

Don't bother. We all know you can't (we have been down this road before".

You will post men saying "Jesus died for us, the just for the unjust" or something like that and declare they believed Jesus experienced God's wrath instead of us. You will post partial excerpts of Justin Martyr (ignoring the context he gives of "the human family" and pretend he affirmed Christ was punished by God in our place.

We have been down this road many times. Each time you and Martin are shut down. You leave believing you won some argument.

You can ignore the fact Augustine declared that the idea Christ's death appeased God a strong heresy alienating the holder from Christianity. But that does not change the fact this is what he taught (and we have his writings).

But that does not matter. You are once again drifting from Scripture

If you want to respond with something then respond with actual Scripture stating Christ's death appeased God, that God punishes the Just instead of the unjust, that Christ died instead of us, or that Christ experienced God's wrath instead of us.

But you won't because you can't. Your faith here is in man, in humanistic philosophy...not in God's Word, in "what is written".

You have yet to answer just how and when the wrath of God we were justly due as being sinners was propitiated?

 

[AustinC]

Uh....no. You are assuming Scripture was speaking of economics. Instead it was speaking of the price paid (suffering and death).

Soldiers do pay a price. I pay a price now for not wearing knee pads. And we were purchased with a price.

Your idea that God paid somebody for us is rather bewildering. Scripture says we were in bondage to sin and death. So obviously you must think the two ...Mr. Sin and Mr. Death...recieved some type of payment????

I did not make up the definition I provided. It is the definition of the word.

Your theology is simply all over the place. You are mot quite a Calvinist, not quite Reforned, and not quite affirming Ransom Theory..... an amalgamation of the unbiblical parts.

Jon, what does God's law require?
You use the term "paid" and then reject that a payment was made. I cannot make it up. You literally use a word, then deny that words meaning all in the same sentence. It is no wonder why no one can actually discuss the issue with you. You say one thing and mean another. This lack of clarity is all on you.

 

[agedman]

Don't bother. We all know you can't (we have been down this road before".

...

If you want to respond with something then respond with actual Scripture stating Christ's death appeased God, that God punishes the Just instead of the unjust, that Christ died instead of us, or that Christ experienced God's wrath instead of us.

But you won't because you can't. Your faith here is in man, in humanistic philosophy...not in God's Word, in "what is written".

Isn't this the common plea that we have given out.

Scripture.

Not other people's opinions, but Scripture.

 

[agedman]

You have yet to answer just how and when the wrath of God we were justly due as being sinners was propitiated?

I did on a thread by @Guido. Did you read of that thread?

 

[AustinC]

Isn't this the common plea that we have given out.

Scripture.

Not other people's opinions, but Scripture.

Unfortunately, you and Jon provide mostly opinion with verses that do nothing to make whatever point you are actually trying to make.