Were God's children ever in danger of being thrown into the lake of fire at any point of time ?

[SavedByGrace]

Look at it again, SBG.
He says that no one knows the Son except the Father, and no one knows the Father except the Son, and whomsoever the Son will reveal the Father to....

This is not the entire human race.

why not? It is clear that God loves the entire human race, as John 3:16 says!

 

[Aaron]

God KNOWS those who will repent and believe from eternity past. this is not the issue here. God did not predetermine their salvation, based on some decree, but foresaw those who will be saved. Humans are IN TIME, so they cannot have been saved before the foundation of the world!

K. But it still stands that they whom God foreknew could not have chosen otherwise. So, as you have said, it's just like they were born saved.

 

[SavedByGrace]

K. But it still stands that they whom God foreknew could not have chosen otherwise. So, as you have said, it's just like they were born saved.

If people are born saved, then the preaching of the Gospel is a waste of time

 

[Van]

Wow !!
SNIP
They always have been God's people, the elect. Never headed for hell, spared from the lake of fire even before they knew what sin was.

Exactly on the button, that. Mercy was given before birth, see the story of Jacob and Esau in Romans.

that is why the elect is God's masterpiece, children of wrath He Himself worked on and changed, in Paul's words "His workmanship" . First God sent the Spirit of His Son to live in us, washing us in regeneration, then he added a new nature to us to challenge the old flesh, then God formed churches, giving the church first apostles, then prophets,evangelists, teachers to bring His Saints to maturity.

Yet another Calvinist claiming the Bible does not mean what it says.
"Had not obtained mercy," does not mean had not obtained mercy, but means had obtained mercy.
"were not a people," does not mean were not a people, but means were a people.

Pay no attention to those who hold to man-made doctrine over scripture.

 

[Aaron]

If people are born saved, then the preaching of the Gospel is a waste of time

People aren't born saved. I'm saying that, even believing in free will, you can't escape the difficulty presented in the OP unless you acknowledge that there is something God cannot know.

 

[JonC]

No (answer to the thread title). It is those who recieve Christ who have the right to become children of God.

 

[Dr. Bob]

God's ways/thoughts are beyond us. We grapple with all sorts of questions that make no sense to us and seem incongruous. God plans it all and nothing He does is guess-work or left up to me. What a vain, self-glorying view THAT would be. What a slap in the face of Grace.

To MY thinking, I was 100% a god-hating sinner, deserving hell for eternity. I rejected the Gospel; going to heaven was NOT good news to me. I had a wicked sin nature than controlled my body, mind, and spirit. I was dangling over hell thinking I was holding myself above the fire by my own self-righteousness, when reality was it was God's thread holding my up. (thank you, Jonathan Edwards, for that clear picture)

To GOD'S thinking, I was His child, His son BEFORE I could do anything (as if I could do anything good!). My eternal fate 100% is as secure as anything held in His omnipotent hands.

To MY thinking, when I got ready I repented of my sin and believed the Gospel. It was ME making MY choice to do this. If it's going to be, it's up to me.

To GOD'S thinking, when HE was ready, His holy Spirit worked in my heart/mind, regenerating me and giving me repentance and faith so that I could repent and believe the Gospel. I was His redeemed child, a lost sheep (lost but still a sheep, not a goat). I could now CLAIM my sonship, but I was always His son. I was the prodigal, but never quit being His child.

It isn't ME that makes me a child of Bud and Helen Griffin. It is my parents. It is the miracle of conception. I might not like it. Hey, I might not know it. But that doesn't change the fact that I am their son. I didn't BECOME their son when I finally figured out the birds and the bees. I didn't even BECOME their son on March 14, 1948, when I was squeegeed out of a womb and started crying. Since God knit two cells together months previous in the inner darkness, I was their son.

To ME, I was born on March 14, 1948.
To ME, I was born again on March 17, 1957.
But that is limited thinking of a limited brain.

 

[SavedByGrace]

To GOD'S thinking, when HE was ready, His holy Spirit worked in my heart/mind, regenerating me and giving me repentance and faith so that I could repent and believe the Gospel

so God did the repenting and believing for you?

The lost are damned to eternal punishment because the do not believe in the Gospel, as John 3:18, tells us. If, as you say that God regenerated your heart so that you can repent and believe on Him, then HOW can He damn those who do not believe, to whom He did not give this faith? Such is the folly of this man-made theology!

Jesus says in Luke 13, "unless you repent you will likewise perish", which says that the sinner has the ability to repent, or else Jesus' words are pointless!

 

[kyredneck]

To GOD'S thinking, when HE was ready, His holy Spirit worked in my heart/mind

15 But when it was the good pleasure of God, who separated me, even from my mother`s womb, and called me through his grace,
16 to reveal his Son in me, that I might preach him among the Gentiles; straightway I conferred not with flesh and blood: Gal 1

It isn't ME that makes me a child of Bud and Helen Griffin. It is my parents.

13 who were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God. Jn 1

 

[SavedByGrace]

15 But when it was the good pleasure of God, who separated me, even from my mother`s womb, and called me through his grace,
16 to reveal his Son in me, that I might preach him among the Gentiles; straightway I conferred not with flesh and blood: Gal 1



13 who were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God. Jn 1

And who says that what is true for Paul is for everyone?

This is exactly how false theology starts

 

[AustinC]

And who says that what is true for Paul is for everyone?

This is exactly how false theology starts

Jeremiah 1:4-5
Now the word of the Lord came to me, saying, “Before I formed you in the womb I knew you, and before you were born I consecrated you; I appointed you a prophet to the nations.

Psalm 139:16
Your eyes saw my unformed substance; in your book were written, every one of them, the days that were formed for me, when as yet there was none of them.

Isaiah 49:5
And now the Lord says, he who formed me from the womb to be his servant, to bring Jacob back to him; and that Israel might be gathered to him— for I am honored in the eyes of the Lord, and my God has become my strength

Romans 8:29
For those whom he foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, in order that he might be the firstborn among many brothers.

 

[Dr. Bob]

so God did the repenting and believing for you?

Read this slowly, since comprehension is important. I said, "God GAVE me the repentance and faith to believe".

Godly repentance is not inherent in man; it is a gift of God. In Acts 11:18 the Jewish believers were amazed that this unique gift of repentance was given to non-Jews. "Then God has also given to Gentiles repentance that leads to life!" They were amazed that God would do this.

And we all know that the faith to believe (not generic faith that all humans have, but the kind that accepts the Gospel) is likewise a gift.

 

[SavedByGrace]

Read this slowly, since comprehension is important. I said, "God GAVE me the repentance and faith to believe".

Godly repentance is not inherent in man; it is a gift of God. In Acts 11:18 the Jewish believers were amazed that this unique gift of repentance was given to non-Jews. "Then God has also given to Gentiles repentance that leads to life!" They were amazed that God would do this.

And we all know that the faith to believe (not generic faith that all humans have, but the kind that accepts the Gospel) is likewise a gift.

it is as good as saying that God ENABLED you to repent and believe! this is robotic

 

[SavedByGrace]

Read this slowly, since comprehension is important. I said, "God GAVE me the repentance and faith to believe".

Godly repentance is not inherent in man; it is a gift of God. In Acts 11:18 the Jewish believers were amazed that this unique gift of repentance was given to non-Jews. "Then God has also given to Gentiles repentance that leads to life!" They were amazed that God would do this.

And we all know that the faith to believe (not generic faith that all humans have, but the kind that accepts the Gospel) is likewise a gift.

further, why did Jesus say, "I tell you, no, but unless YOU repent, you will all perish in the same way" (Luke 13:3, 5)?where it is clear that these could repent, as there is a choice involved. as in John 5:40, "you REFUSE to come", for eternal life. CHOICE involved.

 

[kyredneck]

Godly repentance is not inherent in man; it is a gift of God.

Come, ye sinners, poor and needy,
Weak and wounded, sick and sore;
Jesus ready stands to save you,
Full of pity, love and power.

I will arise and go to Jesus,
He will embrace me in His arms;
In the arms of my dear Savior,
O! There are ten thousand charms.

Come, ye thirsty, come and welcome,
God's free bounty glorify;
True belief and true repentance,
Ev'ry grace that brings us nigh.

I will arise and go to Jesus,
He will embrace me in His arms;
In the arms of my dear Savior,
O! There are ten thousand charms.

Come, ye weary, heavy laden,
Bruised and broken, full of sin;
If you tarry till you're better,
You may never enter in.

I will arise and go to Jesus,
He will embrace me in His arms;
In the arms of my dear Savior,
O! There are ten thousand charms.

Let not conscience make you linger,
Not of fitness fondly dream;
All the fitness He requireth
Is to feel your need of Him.

I will arise and go to Jesus,
He will embrace me in His arms;
In the arms of my dear Savior,
O! There are ten thousand charms.

 

[tyndale1946]

Come, ye sinners, poor and needy,
Weak and wounded, sick and sore;
Jesus ready stands to save you,
Full of pity, love and power.

I will arise and go to Jesus,
He will embrace me in His arms;
In the arms of my dear Savior,
O! There are ten thousand charms.

Come, ye thirsty, come and welcome,
God's free bounty glorify;
True belief and true repentance,
Ev'ry grace that brings us nigh.

I will arise and go to Jesus,
He will embrace me in His arms;
In the arms of my dear Savior,
O! There are ten thousand charms.

Come, ye weary, heavy laden,
Bruised and broken, full of sin;
If you tarry till you're better,
You may never enter in.

I will arise and go to Jesus,
He will embrace me in His arms;
In the arms of my dear Savior,
O! There are ten thousand charms.

Let not conscience make you linger,
Not of fitness fondly dream;
All the fitness He requireth
Is to feel your need of Him.

I will arise and go to Jesus,
He will embrace me in His arms;
In the arms of my dear Savior,
O! There are ten thousand charms.

This has always been my belief for over 50 years... Show me one scripture where man helped God in the creation?... If man did not help God in the first creation?... He does not help God in the new creation?... When I was born naturally I didn't birth myself!... When I was born spiritually, I didn't birth myself either!... The Living Gospel birthed me (quicken me) in the person of The Holy Spirit... Brother Glen

John 3:7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.

8 The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.

 

[timdabap]

No.
2 Peter 3, Colossians 2:10-18, Ephesians 1:1-14, Ephesians 2:1-10, John 6:37-47, Romans 8:28-39, Romans 9:6-24.

Thank you....I was about to start a thread where I was going to ask if one could give 7-10 verses of Scripture from both testaments showing redemption or eternal salvation solely through Christ alone without mention of man...I forgot if I did (still feeling my way through the board), but you just quoted six which were also in my list.

 

[timdabap]

Because Jesus says that sinners need to repent and believe in the Gospel before they can get save, as in Mark 1.15, Luke 13.1-5, Luke 24.47 as in the NASB, ESV

So, Jesus, who is the Word made flesh, God Himself, by whom nothing was created that was created, who knows every intent and thoughts of the heart, who knows what is in man, perfectly set in motion every chemical, physics, and mathematical rules in this time world and in the universe, THAT Jesus, does not know that man is incapable of repenting because of his depraved nature and heart ? Is that what you are saying ? That you repented because Jesus trusted you were capable of repenting all by yourself, no thanks of any way, shape, or form to Him or the Spirit ?
Wow.
I think I am going back to atheism.

 

[SavedByGrace]

So, Jesus, who is the Word made flesh, God Himself, by whom nothing was created that was created, who knows every intent and thoughts of the heart, who knows what is in man, perfectly set in motion every chemical, physics, and mathematical rules in this time world and in the universe, THAT Jesus, does not know that man is incapable of repenting because of his depraved nature and heart ? Is that what you are saying ? That you repented because Jesus trusted you were capable of repenting all by yourself, no thanks of any way, shape, or form to Him or the Spirit ?
Wow.
I think I am going back to atheism.

you just don't understand what the Bible says, and rant on about nothing! What does Jesus say in John 16:8-10? that the Comning of the Holy Spirit, will CONVICT the entire human race of their SIN...because they do not believe in Me! It was this CONVICTION that those who heard Peter in Acts 2, when they were CUT TO THE HEART, that made them ask, What must we DO!". Peters response is in verse 38. Instead of more so called "reformed theology", which is corrupt on the teaching of Biblical salvation, it is the Holy Bible that we must follow!

 

[agedman]

Reformed teaching is that God regenerates the elects heart before they are born again, so that they can call on the Lord for salvation. This is complete nonsense

I can see your not convinced that the baby must first be born and breath a breath before they announce their presence to the world.