The Value of Books

[JonC]

Recently there was a thread where it was (falsely) claimed that I discourage literacy (that I believe reading Christian books are bad).

This comes from my statement that God gives us teachers, but these are men who interact with the congregations to whom they are given. God gifted men and women to assume many roles within the church.

I had also said that Scripture, not books written by men expounding on Scripture, is the authority of our faith. Christians need to first study God's Word and when mature enough to read the opinions of others be very careful not to be indoctrinated but to work out their own faith (don't steal the beliefs of another but hold your own).

This is what I get in reply:

Here we go...now this is where you try and straddle the fence and rework what you posted. People have already seen what you posted.
The horse is out of the barn You rejected these sources quite often, then you sneak out little phrases like chew the meat and spit out the bone.
So which is it JonC? Books of men are okay now, or not?
How long halt you between two opinions?




So according to you, if these persons were given by God then as teachers and we know what they taught because they wrote books or their sermons were written down for us, they are not valid!
Was there an expiration date?
Did the verses they taught on...change?
Your thoughts make no sense JonC....but of course you are welcome to express them.
...
I can spot your falsehoods a mile away.

"
If a Baptist does not read books by Owen or in our day Sinclair Ferguson, It shows defective thinking.
...
Yeah, this sounds so pious. It is just me and God and my bible. I do not need to read Owen or anyone else...I got this...
Do you think Owen and all these men Did not have a bible? They did not pray?

The scripture says they are God given. Who are you to contradict God?

 

[JonC]

So let's look at some of the claims and discuss the proper role of human opinion, commentary, books, and Scripture.

"
If a Baptist does not read books by Owen or in our day Sinclair Ferguson, It shows defective thinking.

Is the above s true statement?

Don't get me wrong, I like reading Owen. I probably have read and studied more of John Owen than @Iconoclast has insults. I highly recommend his works.

BUT is a Baptist who has never read Owen really defective in his or her thinking?

Is Scripture really not enough to equip the saints in terms of doctrine?

@Iconoclast 's post (quotes above) highlights the "problem" with books. The problem is not with books but with Spiritually immature Christians who leave the Lord's table without having learned to eat meat and heads to the local buffet of his choice.

 

[Van]

Who would vilify those advocating primary sources (i.e. prayerful study of God's word) and instead say we need to lean on the interpretation of people? A false teacher?

Does God's word mean what it says? Study to show yourself approved...? Meditate on God's word...?

The reason for the false teaching is Calvinism is not found in God's word, only poured in by bogus interpretation, such as God's word does not mean what it says.

 

[SavedByGrace]

@Iconoclast gets around posting his personal views that usually are not what the Bible actually teaches then he tries to get out of his theological nonsense by trying to make you unbiblical

 

[Silverhair]

If your theology is determined by people that you listen to or the books that you read rather than the bible then you should be questioning the foundation of your theology.

 

[JonC]

We should all be very concerned, not only as Baptists but as Christians, with the idea if a Baptist (or Christian) does not read books by _______ (fill in the blank) it shows defective thinking.

This is made worse as the post continues :

this sounds so pious. It is just me and God and my bible. I do not need to read Owen or anyone else...I got this...
Do you think Owen and all these men Did not have a bible? They did not pray?

The scripture says they are God given. Who are you to contradict God?

God gave us John Owen as our teacher so to disagree is to contradict God???

Has the Reformed Baptists really devolved this much????

There is a sickness in our churches as professing Christians abandon God's Word to follow men. John Smith did not start Mormonism for lack of a Bible.

 

[Deacon]

If you could say something in 25 words,
Owen might say it in 150 words (or more!)
As a bedside sleep aid his books are invaluable.
Otherwise his works are just painful to read.
My opinion.

I read about 2 books a week of various types, generally a theology book, and a sci-fi, biography, or history book.

I’m a critical reader. I don’t limit myself to reading theology that I agree with. If I find a viewpoint that I strongly agree with, the next book I choose usually exposes its weakness.

Reading expands my horizon.
I have never had the opportunity to attend seminary. My profession and family life is too demanding.
But when I read I learn from minds that are far more learned than myself.

Rob

 

[JonC]

If you could say something in 25 words,
Owen might say it in 150 words (or more!)
As a bedside sleep aid his books are invaluable.
Otherwise his works are just painful to read.
My opinion.

I read about 2 books a week of various types, generally a theology book, and a sci-fi, biography, or history book.

I’m a critical reader. I don’t limit myself to reading theology that I agree with. If I find a viewpoint that I strongly agree with, the next book I choose usually exposes its weakness.

Reading expands my horizon.
I have never had the opportunity to attend seminary. My profession and family life is too demanding.
But when I read I learn from minds that are far more learned than myself.

Rob

Owen is not relevant today insofar as theology goes, but from a historical perspective I enjoy reading his books.

Owen is just is not a teacher God gave to a congregation in our century (he was given to our brothers long gone). I think some gravitate to the archaic because they think it is somehow more spiritual, however it is interesting to consider what people went through and how their faith played a part in their lives.

 

[JesusFan]

So let's look at some of the claims and discuss the proper role of human opinion, commentary, books, and Scripture.


Is the above s true statement?

Don't get me wrong, I like reading Owen. I probably have read and studied more of John Owen than @Iconoclast has insults. I highly recommend his works.

BUT is a Baptist who has never read Owen really defective in his or her thinking?

Is Scripture really not enough to equip the saints in terms of doctrine?

@Iconoclast 's post (quotes above) highlights the "problem" with books. The problem is not with books but with Spiritually immature Christians who leave the Lord's table without having learned to eat meat and heads to the local buffet of his choice.

Should a Christian then read Calvin Institutes, or read Hodge, or a Berkhof, in addition to the scriptures?

 

[JesusFan]

Owen is not relevant today insofar as theology goes, but from a historical perspective I enjoy reading his books. I think some gravitate to the archaic because they think it is somehow more spiritual, however it is interesting to consider what people went through and how their faith played a part in their lives.

Based upon that statement, neither would Calvin or Luther or or any other prior teacher and theologian would be "relevant for theology"

 

[JonC]

Should a Christian then read Calvin Institutes, or read Hodge, or a Berkhof, in addition to the scriptures?

No. Should does not play into reading the works of men. A Christian should be devoted to Christ and God's Word.

This does not mean a Christian shouldn't read books.

The issue is spiritually immature Christians (sometimes mature ones) being carried away by vain philosophy and false teachings.

 

[JonC]

Based upon that statement, neither would Calvin or Luther or or any other prior teacher and theologian would be "relevant for theology"

They aren't... except for historical theology.

 

[JesusFan]

They aren't. They are for historical theology.

is not their theology though current and useful for today, being biblical based?

 

[JonC]

is not their theology though current and useful for today, being biblical based?

No.

 

[JesusFan]

No. Should does not play into reading the works of men. A Christian should be devoted to Christ and God's Word.

This does not mean a Christian shouldn't read books.

The issue is spiritually immature Christians (sometimes mature ones) being carried away by vain philosophy and false teachings.

How are you to judge those whom God gifted to write such as us as a Calvin or a Berkhof are not useful to read and use?

 

[JesusFan]

No.

Amazing that you are saying that those learned scholars are no good anymore?

 

[tyndale1946]

Amazing that you are saying that those learned scholars are no good anymore?

I would say with some brethren its an acquired taste... Someone recommended I read Freedom Of The Will by Jonathan Edwards, so I found it in pdf and started reading and half way thru it, I still didn't get, so I stopped reading it... How many on here read Spurgeon?... Kind of like Owens but again its an acquired taste... I like Pink and have many of his books but do I always agree with him... NO!... The one I recommend that every Baptist should read is Pilgrims Progress... I've read Josephus, Edersheim, Irenaeus, Gadsby, Philpot, Bunyan and a slew of other old theologians and ancient writers... And like deacon I like to step away and read other things... Take a breather so to speak... And right now at the age of 76 you will not believe what I am reading?... The Chronicles Of Narnia by C.S. Lewis... All because a good preacher friend of mine recommended that I do... I did not know that C.S. Lewis and Tolkien were friends... Loved Lord Of the Rings, both the books and the movie... Well I'm off to continue the adventure and Icon's an acquired taste too but sometimes he's on vacation... Brother Glen

 

[Iconoclast]

This thread is attempted damage control by JonC.
We have all seen what he has been posting.
When we called attention to it, now his story changes, lol.
JonC now pretends to be the advocate for supplemental reading.
Anyone can claim anything online...but their posts give the rest of the story.
More ascended master posting.
SBG, and Van are two converts

 

[Iconoclast]

Amazing that you are saying that those learned scholars are no good anymore?

He only thinks his posts are readable. Sinclair Ferguson is respected worldwide and has helped many.
JonC probably has not read anything by him yet he "knows" should not be viewed by Baptists.

 

[Iconoclast]

How are you to judge those whom God gifted to write such as us as a Calvin or a Berkhof are not useful to read and use?

Ascended masters go beyond all teachers.