I am not talking about being yoked with the world. I am not talking about uniting as a congregation or even an association. I am talking about all believers being united in Christ.
-
Welcome to Baptist Board, a friendly forum to discuss the Baptist Faith in a friendly surrounding.
Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to all the features that our community has to offer.
We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!
Spiritual Truth and Doctrine
- Thread starter JonC
- Start date
- Status
Unless we hold to the essentials of the faith, no spiritual truth or unity!
Honestly, Jon, your first sentence reads like a quote right out of the new age movement. It's a bunch of words with absolutely no substance. I would jettison such an argument as it defines nothing and leaves everything up to mere feelings.
Your second sentence is better. Faith is worked out through God's word being trusted, regardless if the person is able to explain it in theological terms.
Reformed1689
Well-Known Member
I don't know, do you consider baptism a core doctrine?
Not new age at all. Spiritual wisdom.
Christians have received God's Spirit. It is through His Spirit that we know things from God and we communicate these not through human wisdom (the flesh does not understand the Spirit) but via Spiritual truth - combining spiritual thoughts with spiritual words.
Again, what you say is empty.
Connect it directly to scripture so I can hear God speak rather than you. When you speak, you use terms that the new age movement uses.
What are you talking about.....New Age terms???
"
You think that we are given of "God's Spirit" is a New Age term???
This is how we know that we live in him and he in us: He has given us of his Spirit.1 John 4:13
As a Christian you should know this is in the Bible.
What do you think is "New Age"?
Or is this just another empty claim, words without meaning?
You think that we are given of "God's Spirit" is a New Age term???
This is how we know that we live in him and he in us: He has given us of his Spirit.1 John 4:13
I think Austin captured it.
The best that I can make out of this ganglion of words is that Jon is denying, or at the very least marginalizing, the existence and/or importance of objective truth in favor of a 'truth' that is somehow higher according to the degree of civility people show to one another.
In other words, error can be truth as long as we're friendly about it.
But he didn't "capture" anything. He just said I used new age terms when I spoke of Spiritual truth combining spiritual thoughts with spiritual words.
Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the Spirit who is from God, so that we may know the things freely given to us by God, which things we also speak, not in words taught by human wisdom, but in those taught by the Spirit, combining spiritual thoughts with spiritual words.
Why do you believe Austin was correct in ridiculing my statement that Spiritual truth ..those things taught by the Spirit....are taught combining spiritual words with spiritual thoughts? How is that "new age"?
Some very interesting thoughts here.
The first is that Biblical error does not become spiritual truth because the one expounding the error is really nice, prays beautifully and/or does lots of good works. I recommend a reading of Deuteronomy 13 and Deuteronomy 18:20-22.
Secondly, Acts of the Apostles 20:28-30 tells us the church leaders are to take heed to themselves - and that means themselves and each other. I see my job as an elder being to support the Pastor, but also to hold him to account. If he is going off beam (not remotely likely to happen) my duty is to speak to him and warn him. If he doesn't change, then I would have to take his name before the church members and have him removed. He has the same duty towards me, and it applies however 'spiritual' we may or may not be. We also have to take heed to the flock, to make sure that as a body it is following the doctrine preached, and that no one is stirring up dissension (Titus 3:10-11). A 'savage wolf' does not become less savage because he is 'really spiritual.' He is just a wolf in sheep's clothing.
Thirdly, the Puritans taught that doctrine must go from head to heart to hand: first to understand it, then to love it and then to put it into action. A mere head knowledge of doctrine is not enough. 'Knowledge puffs up, but love edifies.' There is a real danger of pride, especially, I think, among Reformed people, though it certainly applies to others as well James 3:1 should be enough to keep us humble.
There is no text in the Bible that says that one has to be a theological expert to be saved. But when the Bible tells us, 'Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and you will be saved,' our faith must be in Him, in Him crucified, and in Him alone. 'Christ plus' always fails (Colossians 2:8-10), be it Christ plus baptism, Christ plus charismatic gifts, Christ plus good works, Christ plus anything. We are complete in Him.
The first is that Biblical error does not become spiritual truth because the one expounding the error is really nice, prays beautifully and/or does lots of good works. I recommend a reading of Deuteronomy 13 and Deuteronomy 18:20-22.
Secondly, Acts of the Apostles 20:28-30 tells us the church leaders are to take heed to themselves - and that means themselves and each other. I see my job as an elder being to support the Pastor, but also to hold him to account. If he is going off beam (not remotely likely to happen) my duty is to speak to him and warn him. If he doesn't change, then I would have to take his name before the church members and have him removed. He has the same duty towards me, and it applies however 'spiritual' we may or may not be. We also have to take heed to the flock, to make sure that as a body it is following the doctrine preached, and that no one is stirring up dissension (Titus 3:10-11). A 'savage wolf' does not become less savage because he is 'really spiritual.' He is just a wolf in sheep's clothing.
Thirdly, the Puritans taught that doctrine must go from head to heart to hand: first to understand it, then to love it and then to put it into action. A mere head knowledge of doctrine is not enough. 'Knowledge puffs up, but love edifies.' There is a real danger of pride, especially, I think, among Reformed people, though it certainly applies to others as well James 3:1 should be enough to keep us humble.
There is no text in the Bible that says that one has to be a theological expert to be saved. But when the Bible tells us, 'Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and you will be saved,' our faith must be in Him, in Him crucified, and in Him alone. 'Christ plus' always fails (Colossians 2:8-10), be it Christ plus baptism, Christ plus charismatic gifts, Christ plus good works, Christ plus anything. We are complete in Him.
You are wrong (of course) and your reply completely ignores my actual words.
Christians have received God's Spirit. It is through His Spirit that we know things from God and we communicate these not through human wisdom (the flesh does not understand the Spirit) but via Spiritual truth - combining spiritual thoughts with spiritual words.
Where do I say civility? Where do I say "friendliness". I could say "kind" and "gentle", and "not being a cause of offence'. But I didn't. My words are above
You are fighting windmills again, Don Quixote.
I understand. You don't like what Scripture refers to as the "fruit of the Spirit". Many don't.
Be kind and compassionate to one another, forgiving each other, just as in Christ God forgave you.” “But love your enemies, and do good, and lend, expecting nothing in return, and your reward will be great, and you will be sons of the Most High, for he is kind to the ungrateful and the evil.
Words do not become spiritual truth.
Look at John Owen. Did he demonstrate spiritual truth? What about the doctrines he held which were false?
We are taught by the Spirit, combining spiritual thoughts with spiritual words.
Yep. Morality: the truth that saves you from the Cross.
No. Just the defining behavior of Christians.
Scripture tells us that the fruit tells us something of the tree. Does the tree bear good or bad fruit.
Scripture lists those things you seem to denounce as being fruits of the Spirit, and those things you seem to appreciate as fruits of the flesh.
It is not about being saved from the cross but the traits that mark those who have died to the flesh and are made alive in Christ.
@AustinC and @Iconoclast
How is my saying "Spiritual truth combines spiritual words with spiritual thoughts" using "New Age movement terms" when that is what is written in Scripture???
How is my saying "Spiritual truth combines spiritual words with spiritual thoughts" using "New Age movement terms" when that is what is written in Scripture???
- Status