"How I Learned the Doctrine of Election"

[Silverhair]

People are chosen because God chose them.

Romans 9:15-18 For he says to Moses: “I will have mercy on whom I have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion.” So then, it does not depend on human desire or exertion, but on God who shows mercy. For the scripture says to Pharaoh: “For this very purpose I have raised you up, that I may demonstrate my power in you, and that my name may be proclaimed in all the earth.” So then, God has mercy on whom he chooses to have mercy, and he hardens whom he chooses to harden. (emphasis mine)

Notice what it says "he chooses to have mercy" "he chooses to harden". Notice what it does not say He chooses who to save. God is sovereign and He has chosen to save those that freely trust in His son. Why do you continue to ignore that truth? Only God can save and He saves those that believe.
Joh 3:18 "He who believes in Him is not judged; he who does not believe has been judged already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

Joh 3:16 "For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life.

Eph 1:13 In Him, you also, after listening to the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation—having also believed, you were sealed in Him with the Holy Spirit of promise,

Rom 10:13 for "WHOEVER WILL CALL ON THE NAME OF THE LORD WILL BE SAVED."

 

[AustinC]

I did not read the linked article, but only the opening post. It presented at least two falsehoods.

The biblical doctrine of election does not invoke a response of hatred and indignation. God chooses for salvation those whose faith He credits as righteousness.

The other falsehood is that all the lost cannot respond affirmatively and fully to the gospel of Christ. One has only to read Matthew 13 to learn that some of the lost cannot respond, and others choose to respond affirmatively but not fully, and still others respond affirmatively and fully.

LOL, I highlighted your man-centered mantra. As to Matthew 13 and the parable of the sower, we must understand the parable in light of what Jesus actually teaches and what the rest of scripture informs.

You keep presenting faith as a man accomplished work that God evaluates and then either credits as righteousness or discredits as not showing up. You have presented your view ad nauseum and everyone tells you that you are wrong. Feel free to be wrong and have everyone disagree with you. Just note that I disagree with you because the Bible disagrees with you.

 

[Silverhair]

Man in his natural state hates, or at best ignores or soft sells, the Biblical doctrine of election(I know having been like that myself concerning the doctrine). Man in his natural state in false religion wants to claim some credit for his "salvation", no matter how tiny it may be. God will not suffer such to occur:

Isaiah 42:8 I am the LORD: that is my name: and my glory will I not give to another, neither my praise to graven images.

So it is a good thing that a person trusting in/having faith in Christ Jesus is not claiming credit for ones salvation. Actually having faith in His son is the one condition God has for our salvation.

 

[KenH]

The gift is salvation not faith. The gift being faith is what you read into the text.

So...this faith of yours...why did you believe and another person not believe? Were you smarter? More brilliant? Luckier? What?

 

[Silverhair]

I know from previous conversations with you that you appear to have a rather convoluted "gospel" that you proclaim, so much so that I find it difficult to understand your reasoning or even how to characterize it, other than it is opposed to Biblical soteriology of salvation by God's sovereign grace alone. However, if you can answer a question simply so that even one such as I can understand your answer - Do believe that God looked down through the telescope of time and "foresaw" that some fallen members of Adam's race - somehow, someway - would conjure up the ability to have faith?

Is this the same God that decided to condemn billions to hell just because He could. Why do you believe God "looked down through the telescope of time and "foresaw" that some fallen members of Adam's race - somehow, someway - would conjure up the ability to have faith". I keep hearing this from you calvinists quite a bit, but I do not hear it from the non-calvinist. God is omniscient so He knows who will freely trust in His son. Reading your post I have to conclude you do not believe what the bible says. Either that or you are just trying to be a troll.

 

[KenH]

those that freely trust in His son

So...this trust of yours...why did you trust and another person not trust? What made you different than another? Were you smarter? More brilliant? Luckier? What?

 

[KenH]

trusting in/having faith in Christ Jesus is not claiming credit for ones salvation

It is a matter of source. Apparently, if I understand you correctly, you claim credit for your faith. I claim that God is the source of my faith because otherwise I would have no Biblical, saving faith. No person has ever or will ever have saving faith unless God grants it to Him as God is the cause of the new birth(regeneration) which precedes believing(John 1:12-13).

 

[KenH]

you calvinists

I am not a Calvinist. I do not follow Calvin. I am a believer in salvation by the sovereign grace of God through the finished work of Christ, The LORD my RIGHTEOUSNESS, on behalf of His elect, their sins having been imputed to Him, His perfect righteousness having been imputed to them.

 

[KenH]

so He knows who will freely trust in His son

Apparently, you don't believe that Christ really meant it when He said, "It is finished." You think it requires you to act to complete the process.

 

[Silverhair]

Romans 8:30 And those that he before-ordained to bless, them he called; and whom he called, them he justified; and whom he justified, them he glorified. (WBMS)

Why do you leave out Rom 8:29
For those whom He foreknew, He also predestined to become conformed to the image of His Son, so that He would be the firstborn among many brethren;

God knows who will freely trust in His son and has predestined them to be conformed to the image of His Son.

For those whom He {God} foreknew, G4267
He {God} also predestined G4309
{why} to become conformed to the image of His Son,
{why} so that He {Jesus} would be the firstborn among many brethren

 

[Silverhair]

13 who were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God. Jn 1

So you agree then that man can not save himself, only God can save. What you still deny is that God saves those the trust in His son.

 

[Silverhair]

Are refusing to answer my question, sir, about foreknowledge?

Gods' foreknowledge means that He knows who will freely trust in His son, do you deny this or are you just not sure what foreknowledge means?

 

[KenH]

Gods' foreknowledge means that He knows who will freely trust in His son

"freely"? Why would some "freely" - by their own fallen will - trust? Are they smarter? More brilliant? Luckier? What?

 

[KenH]

God knew from BEFORE the foundation of the world who would have faith, @Silverhair, as He is the One Who gives them faith.

 

[Silverhair]

Romans 1:16-17 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek. For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.

From faith(knowledge revealed) to faith(knowledge received), and this by the sovereign will of God to His elect.

For I am not ashamed of the gospel, for it is the power of God for salvation to everyone who believes. I can agree that man has to hear the gospel message and believe the gospel message before God by His grace saves them.

 

[Silverhair]

6 For behold your calling, brethren, that not many wise after the flesh, not many mighty, not many noble, are called:
27 but God chose the foolish things of the world, that he might put to shame them that are wise; and God chose the weak things of the world, that he might put to shame the things that are strong;
28 and the base things of the world, and the things that are despised, did God choose, yea and the things that are not, that he might bring to nought the things that are:
29 that no flesh should glory before God.
30 But of him are ye in Christ Jesus, who was made unto us wisdom from God, and righteousness and sanctification, and redemption: 1 Cor 1

[add]

...but folks like @Van and @Silverhair, they're special, different from the rest of us, they chose God, they put themselves in Christ Jesus...or so they think.

You got tit wrong as per usual. We heard the gospel and trusted the gospel message and then God saved us. God put us in Christ Jesus because we believed. Eph 1:13
Whereas you calvinists have to hope that what you think is your faith is actually real. As you like to say, God gave you that faith so you would believe. So it is not even your faith is it.

 

[Silverhair]

LOL, I highlighted your man-centered mantra. As to Matthew 13 and the parable of the sower, we must understand the parable in light of what Jesus actually teaches and what the rest of scripture informs.

You keep presenting faith as a man accomplished work that God evaluates and then either credits as righteousness or discredits as not showing up. You have presented your view ad nauseum and everyone tells you that you are wrong. Feel free to be wrong and have everyone disagree with you. Just note that I disagree with you because the Bible disagrees with you.

Not everyone says it is wrong just you calvinists do that. You want people to accept your calvinism rather than the bible. Many on here have worked diligently to point out your errors but you just deny those truths. Your pride is the great stumbling block.

 

[KenH]

So it is not even your faith is it.

EXACTLY!!!! As Jonah said, "Salvation is of the LORD." (Jonah 2:9)

Salvation is of God. It is not of man. It is not some kind of "Divine-human" partnership cooperative effort. It is all of GOD! If it was not all of God, then no human being would be saved.

 

[KenH]

You still haven't answered my question, @Silverhair. What do you claim, in your soteriology, makes a believer believe, or differ, from another? Are they smarter? More brilliant? Luckier? What is claim?

 

[Silverhair]

So...this faith of yours...why did you believe and another person not believe? Were you smarter? More brilliant? Luckier? What?

Well if you compare me to the average calvinist then it would seem that I am smarter more brilliant. Does that make you feel better.

The reality is that I trusted the gospel message not because I am smarter or more brilliant or even lucky. Everyone has the same opportunity when they hear the gospel, accept it or reject it. It is not a matter of brains it is a matter of conviction.
Now if you want to see who has to be one of the lucky ones to be saved, then just look in the mirror or at any of your calvinist friends. According to your theology you were the lucky ones that God picked out to be saved. You had zero to do with it, you just won the lottery. That luck.