KenH
Well-Known Member
Why does one have "conviction" and another not? What makes them to differ? Are they smarter? More brilliant? Luckier? What is your claim in on your man-based-performance soteriology?
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"How I Learned the Doctrine of Election"
- Thread starter KenH
- Start date
Why does one have "conviction" and another not? What makes them to differ? Are they smarter? More brilliant? Luckier? What is your claim in on your man-based-performance soteriology?
Silverhair
Well-Known Member
You say your not a calvinist but you still deny that man has to trust in Christ Jesus before they are saved or have I got that wrong about what you think?
Silverhair
Well-Known Member
Are you suggesting that man was saved at the cross when He said it is finished?
Silverhair
Well-Known Member
Did you not read what I wrote?
KenH
Well-Known Member
God regenerates His elect and upon that they are granted repentance from dead works and faith in Christ.
Ezekiel 16:6 And when I passed by thee, and saw thee polluted in thine own blood, I said unto thee when thou wast in thy blood, Live; yea, I said unto thee when thou wast in thy blood, Live.
KenH
Well-Known Member
So you are claiming credit?
KenH
Well-Known Member
It was a done deal here - "before the foundation of the world". The rest happens in time.
Silverhair
Well-Known Member
Why do you miss quote me? It seems the truth is to hard for you to handle so you try to make it look like I said things that I did not say.
God is omniscient so He knows who will freely trust in His son and also who will freely reject His son. People hear the gospel message and then they can either accept it and trust in Christ Jesus or they can reject the message and Christ Jesus. Joh 3:18
God does not give people faith so they will believe that is a calvinist idea and apparently yours also.
Silverhair
Well-Known Member
Claiming credit for what? For what you said I wrote or for what I wrote? And what are you saying that I wrote? Give me the quote, post #
Silverhair
Well-Known Member
So now your claiming that all those who you think are the prechosen saved ones were born sinless.
So basically what you are saying is that:
For the absolutely elect must have been saved without Christ Jesus;
and the non-elect cannot be saved by Christ Jesus.
and the non-elect cannot be saved by Christ Jesus.
Ken didn't claim any of this.
This is your conclusion. Stop projecting your conclusions on others.
canadyjd
Well-Known Member
“Foreknew” means knowing in an intimate relationship, not knowing something about that person,
It says, “Those He foreknew….” Not… “Those whom He saw in His foreknowledge would believe”.
peace to you
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I foreknow what's coming up in my garden because I planted the seed.
canadyjd
Well-Known Member
But did you have a relationship with that seed before you planted it?
Ever see the movie Second Hand Lions”?
peace to you
Silverhair
Well-Known Member
Claim credit for my faith, NO. My faith is in response to the conviction of the Holy Spirit of my sinful nature. Did you not see those verses in your bible? Joh_ 16:8-9 Further we are told that the gospel message is the power of God for salvation. Rom_1:16
I must admit that I find your comment "I claim that God is the source of my faith because otherwise I would have no Biblical, saving faith." just a bit of a surprise. What you are saying is that you do not trust in your own God given intelligence to make real choices. For some reason you think that you have the ability to reject God but not the ability to accept God, strange to say the least.
Did you actually read Joh 1:12-13? "Joh 1:12 But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God," Note it is those that trust that are given the right to become children of God.
You want it to say that as many as were children of God He gave the right to believe. Your view is not biblical.
Silverhair
Well-Known Member
Well who do you think saves? God does. But He saves those that believe. He does not save so they will believe as you and calvinists would have it.
Silverhair
Well-Known Member
You really do not like the truth do you. How many times must you be shown scripture before it will sink in. God saves those that trust in His son. The Holy Spirit convicts. The gospel is the power of God for salvation. If you can not understand what the bible says then you are just showing me that you have a real comprehension problem.
Just to make it clear for you, and perhaps this time you will understand what I am saying although I doubt that will be.
It is not a matter of being smarter or more brilliant or even being lucky, it is a matter of conviction. Also it is not a matter of God being fair, it is a matter of God being just.
Your problem is that you, for whatever reason, can not conceive of the idea that God would actually want His creation to make real free will choices as to their relationship to Him.
Silverhair
Well-Known Member
Just calling it like it is. What he has written does not leave other conclusions to be drawn. Much of what you write leads to the same conclusion.
Silverhair
Well-Known Member
foreknew G4267
to know. To perceive or recognize beforehand, know previously, take into account or specially consider beforehand, to grant prior acknowledgement or recognition to someone, to foreknow.
The Complete Word Study Dictionary
God being omniscient can and in fact does know what is going to happen before hand. I realize that you have trouble accepting this but He even knows who will freely trust in His son.
KenH
Well-Known Member
As in Genesis 4:1: Adam knew Eve