Gospel Nonconformity Is Essential!

[Scripture More Accurately]

You are quite right. The inner battle against the flesh is detailed in Romans 7. Romans 8 explains how the Spirit helps your walk and enables you to actually win the battle and how you must have the "mind of the spirit". Chapter 12 goes into more practical real life advice on what you should avoid and what you should do, as a physical being, living in the world. It is not legalistic to say "I will not do this. I will not listen to that, or participate in that. I won't drink this or smoke that." Doing these things are not what saves you but for a Christian anything even suggested in the scripture should be imperative to us. There is a weird, practical antinomianism going on nowadays where Christians are afraid to actively try to live a holy life out of some fear of legalism. This should not be.

Well said. Tragically, the false notion of "legalism" is often invoked to dismiss divine commands to believers.

 

[Scripture More Accurately]

Good luck. When you fall, look me up and I will point you to Jesus.

Thanks for wishing me well. I will not need you to point me to Jesus--I have already come to the Father through Him.

 

[Scripture More Accurately]

Comparing Scripture with Scripture, we can be certain that both commands in Romans 12:2 are essential:

Ps. 1:1 Blessed is the man that walketh not in the counsel of the ungodly, nor standeth in the way of sinners, nor sitteth in the seat of the scornful.

Ps. 1:2 But his delight is in the law of the Lord; and in his law doth he meditate day and night.

Ps. 1:3 And he shall be like a tree planted by the rivers of water, that bringeth forth his fruit in his season; his leaf also shall not wither; and whatsoever he doeth shall prosper.

Compare how Psalm 1:1-3 directly parallels Rom. 12:2a-c (shown by matching colors for the parallel parts):

Rom. 12:2 And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.

Note the following:

1. Psalm 1:1 stresses nonconformity to wicked people just as Rom. 12:2a commands.

2. Psalm 1:2 directly parallels Rom 12:2b.

3. Psalm 1:3 directly parallels Rom. 12:2c.

We must reject all notions that the command to not be conformed to this world is not essential but the command to be transformed is. God commands both, and both are essential!

 

[Aaron]

Comparing Scripture with Scripture, we can be certain that both commands in Romans 12:2 are essential:

Ps. 1:1 Blessed is the man that walketh not in the counsel of the ungodly, nor standeth in the way of sinners, nor sitteth in the seat of the scornful.

Ps. 1:2 But his delight is in the law of the Lord; and in his law doth he meditate day and night.

Ps. 1:3 And he shall be like a tree planted by the rivers of water, that bringeth forth his fruit in his season; his leaf also shall not wither; and whatsoever he doeth shall prosper.

Compare how Psalm 1:1-3 directly parallels Rom. 12:2a-c (shown by matching colors for the parallel parts):

Rom. 12:2 And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.

Note the following:

1. Psalm 1:1 stresses nonconformity to wicked people just as Rom. 12:2a commands.

2. Psalm 1:2 directly parallels Rom 12:2b.

3. Psalm 1:3 directly parallels Rom. 12:2c.

We must reject all notions that the command to not be conformed to this world is not essential but the command to be transformed is. God commands both, and both are essential!

How does one 'nonconform' himself?

 

[canadyjd]

….
It is irrelevant what other religions do or do not have….

Of course it does. All other religions put the emphasis on what a person does (not conformed to the world) while the focus of Christianity is on the new birth in Christ, the transformation into a new person, from which all actions flow in the power of Holy Spirit.

A person can “fake” nonconformity by following rules for their entire lives. A person cannot “fake” indwelling Holy Spirit because they are not genuinely transformed. Whatever they appear to be will be revealed in time of there is no transformation.

Good conversation

peace to you

 

[DaveXR650]

Guys. It's like @Martin Marprelate said earlier. Christian pastors used to talk a lot about the fight we had against "the world, the flesh and the Devil". It is OK for a Christian to actively pursue holiness. There is a balance and a danger of legalism and there are times where you might do something that someone else, who is just as good a Christian as you, will not feel right about doing. But don't break off from the battle just because there are pitfalls to watch out for. And if you are a Christian and have the prospect of living for a number of more years on this Earth, you are in battle.

 

[Scripture More Accurately]

Of course it does. All other religions put the emphasis on what a person does (not conformed to the world) while the focus of Christianity is on the new birth in Christ, the transformation into a new person, from which all actions flow in the power of Holy Spirit.

A person can “fake” nonconformity by following rules for their entire lives. A person cannot “fake” indwelling Holy Spirit because they are not genuinely transformed. Whatever they appear to be will be revealed in time of there is no transformation.

Good conversation

peace to you

It does not matter what other religions do or do not do. The commands in Romans 12:2 are given to believers (people who are already genuinely saved).

If someone pretends to be a believer but he is not, that does not change at all God's demand for those who are true believers not to be conformed to this world.

 

[Scripture More Accurately]

Guys. It's like @Martin Marprelate said earlier. Christian pastors used to talk a lot about the fight we had against "the world, the flesh and the Devil". It is OK for a Christian to actively pursue holiness. There is a balance and a danger of legalism and there are times where you might do something that someone else, who is just as good a Christian as you, will not feel right about doing. But don't break off from the battle just because there are pitfalls to watch out for. And if you are a Christian and have the prospect of living for a number of more years on this Earth, you are in battle.

I disagree concerning what you say about there being "a danger of legalism." I completely reject the false notion of "legalism" as a valid concept in the way that it is often used.

Christian obedience to God's demands is not "legalism."

 

[DaveXR650]

I disagree concerning what you say about there being "a danger of legalism." I completely reject the false notion of "legalism" as a valid concept in the way that it is often used.

I know what you're trying to say and I agree that "legalism" is a term over used nowadays. What I mean though is that you may make a determination to do or not do something to honor God and enhance your Christian walk and that is fine. But some other Christian may not agree with you that what you are doing or not doing is necessary and thus may not join you in that area. If you begin to judge him because he doesn't do the specific thing you do - that IS legalism. I for instance will not have any alcoholic beverages in my house and I will not (any more) even drink a beer. I have specific reasons for that, based on my prior patterns of behavior and family history and that is right for me as a Christian. I do not have a right to condemn you, if you drink a beer or glass of wine with your meal though, and I don't have a right to say you shouldn't even go to a restaurant that serves such beverages. I was in a church that actually did that. You don't want to go too far in that direction but I agree with you that the bigger problem in our day is not that we are too strict.

 

[canadyjd]

I disagree concerning what you say about there being "a danger of legalism." I completely reject the false notion of "legalism" as a valid concept in the way that it is often used.

Christian obedience to God's demands is not "legalism."

You are correct, of course.

Legalism manifest itself, often, in the attempt to coerce other Christians to accept your own view of nonconformity, usually by questioning their commitment to God or even their salvation if they disagree.

Let each be convinced in their own minds and be aware that each of us navigate the waters of Christian liberty and nonconformity.

peace to you

 

[Scripture More Accurately]

How does one 'nonconform' himself?

For starters, Psalm 1:1 teaches us that we are not to walk in the counsel of the ungodly, we are not to stand in the way of sinners, and we are not to sit in the seat of the scornful. Many other passages similarly instruct us in what ways we are not to be conformed to this world.

 

[Martin Marprelate]

You are correct, of course.

Legalism manifest itself, often, in the attempt to coerce other Christians to accept your own view of nonconformity, usually by questioning their commitment to God or even their salvation if they disagree.

Let each be convinced in their own minds and be aware that each of us navigate the waters of Christian liberty and nonconformity.

peace to you

Legalism - as I understand the term - is imposing upon others rules that are not laid down in the Bible - the 'traditions of the elders' (Mark 7:5 etc.). To point people to the commands of God as they are laid down in the Bible is not legalism. The Lord Jesus said, "If you love Me, keep My commandments." Do we? Will we?

I am not tlking about sinless perfection here. The Apostle John wrote, ‘If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us’ (1John 1:8), whilst James tells us that, ‘We all stumble in many ways’ (James 3:2). What we are talking about here is a true longing for holiness; a desire to be like our Lord. As the Puritans used to say, we cannot lay hold of Heaven while our hands are still full of our sins. Therefore the true Christian joyfully lays down all his sins at the foot of the cross and declares with the Psalmist, ‘I delight to do Your will, O my God, and Your law is within my heart’ (Psalm 40:8). That is why it is not possible for a practising thief, liar, adulterer or homosexual to be a Christian, whatever they may declare. Anyone who says to himself, “I want to become a Christian, but I won’t stop doing that…”, whatever “that” may be, is on the broad road to destruction (Matt. 7:13). We are told of Levi, the tax collector that he, ‘left all, rose up and followed [Jesus]’ (Luke 5:28). We may or may not be called to leave our jobs or our families when we become Christians, but we are certainly called to leave our sins (John 8:11) even if they are as dear to us as our right hands or right eyes (Matt. 5:29). Alas, perfect sinlessness will still elude us, but when we confess our sins, God looks into our hearts, sees our sincerity and forgives us for Christ’s sake. ‘My little children, these things I write to you, that you may not sin. And if anyone sins, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ, the Righteous’ (1John 2:1).

 

[Scripture More Accurately]

To point people to the commands of God as they are laid down in the Bible is not legalism. The Lord Jesus said, "If you love Me, keep My commandments." Do we? Will we?

So true. Exhorting believers to obey God's command not to be conformed to the world is not "legalism"!

 

[Aaron]

For starters, Psalm 1:1 teaches us that we are not to walk in the counsel of the ungodly, we are not to stand in the way of sinners, and we are not to sit in the seat of the scornful. Many other passages similarly instruct us in what ways we are not to be conformed to this world.

LOL. For starters, Paul says it in the very next words. Be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind!

So, the obedience of being 'nonconformed,' is in being transformed.

 

[Scripture More Accurately]

LOL. For starters, Paul says it in the very next words. Be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind!

So, the obedience of being 'nonconformed,' is in being transformed.

Wrong. The text calls for two different responses. It does not teach that obeying the second imperative = obeying the first imperative.

 

[Scripture More Accurately]

It is a tragic reality that there are believers who misinterpret Scripture to diminish the importance of obedience to God's command not to be conformed to the world:

Romans 12:2 And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.

Romans 12:2 καὶ μὴ συσχηματίζεσθε τῷ αἰῶνι τούτῳ, ἀλλὰ μεταμορφοῦσθε τῇ ἀνακαινώσει τοῦ νοὸς ὑμῶν, εἰς τὸ δοκιμάζειν ὑμᾶς τί τὸ θέλημα τοῦ Θεοῦ τὸ ἀγαθὸν καὶ εὐάρεστον καὶ τέλειον.

God reiterates that same teaching about the importance of nonconformity in 1 Peter:

1 Peter 1:14 As obedient children, not fashioning yourselves according to the former lusts in your ignorance: 15 But as he which hath called you is holy, so be ye holy in all manner of conversation; 16 Because it is written, Be ye holy; for I am holy.

The exact same Greek verb that is rendered "be not conformed" in Rom. 12:2a is in 1 Pet. 1:14 as a present participle and is rendered "not fashioning yourselves":

1 Peter 1:14 ὡς τέκνα ὑπακοῆς, μὴ συσχηματιζόμενοι ταῖς πρότερον ἐν τῇ ἀγνοίᾳ ὑμῶν ἐπιθυμίαις, 15 ἀλλὰ κατὰ τὸν καλέσαντα ὑμᾶς ἅγιον καὶ αὐτοὶ ἅγιοι ἐν πάσῃ ἀναστροφῇ γενήθητε· 16 διότι γέγραπται, Ἅγιοι γένεσθε, ὅτι ἐγὼ ἅγιός εἰμι.

Through Rom. 12:2 and 1 Pet. 1:14, God stresses the importance of obedience in our not being conformed to this world (Rom. 12:2a) by our fashioning ourselves according to the former lusts in our ignorance (1 Pet. 1:14).

Gospel nonconformity is essential for us as believers!

 

[Aaron]

Wrong. The text calls for two different responses. It does not teach that obeying the second imperative = obeying the first imperative.

All one needs to not be conformed to the world is to focus on and be an imitator of Christ alone, Ephesians 5:1 .

'Be not conformed' and 'Be transformed' are the same commandment; two sides of the same coin.

The imperative to the church is to be a follower of Christ. To be transformed. If you think part of that is looking at the world to see what not to do, then you've raised an idol.

 

[Scripture More Accurately]

All one needs to not be conformed to the world is to focus on and be an imitator of Christ alone, Ephesians 5:1 .

'Be not conformed' and 'Be transformed' are the same commandment; two sides of the same coin.

The imperative to the church is to be a follower of Christ. To be transformed. If you think part of that is looking at the world to see what not to do, then you've raised an idol.

Wrong. Both the imperatives in Rom. 12:2 are imperatives to the church. I have not raised an idol--you deny Scripture and misinterpret it.

 

[Aaron]

Wrong. Both the imperatives in Rom. 12:2 are imperatives to the church. I have not raised an idol--you deny Scripture and misinterpret it.

LOL. Actually you're denying the Scripture. But do what you want.

 

[Scripture More Accurately]

LOL. Actually you're denying the Scripture. But do what you want.

I have not denied any Scripture. You wrongly interpret Scripture and are therefore greatly mistaken in your theology. No one should listen to what you say on this subject because what you say will prevent them from properly knowing and doing the will of God for their lives.