Featured Ye must be born again !

I do not disagree with that.

Never have.

So why do you act as though I do?

And it is not until the Testator dies that the Testament has force.

It is true all of the faithful of all Ages belong to God, however, Eternal Redemption is achieved only by Christ:

Hebrews 9:11-12 KJV

11 But Christ being come an high priest of good things to come, by a greater and more perfect tabernacle, not made with hands, that is to say, not of this building;

12 Neither by the blood of goats and calves, but by his own blood he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us.


1. "Us" refers to all saints of all ages;

2. Christ is contrasted with the system that was in place, the Covenant of Law. This makes it clear that His Priesthood begins—after the Levitical Priesthood, and rules out the idea it has gone on eternally;

3. The sacrifices of the Law are contrasted with His sacrifice, which shows they were in effect until the New Covenant was established;

4. Most importantly, we see that it is when Christ entered into the Holy Place with His sacrifice that Eternal Redemption for the faithful was obtained. This denies the idea that Christ's Sacrifice has always been applied to the faithful over the Ages.

Mankind was in need of redemption and reconciliation with God, and there is a time in History when that happened:


Galatians 4 KJV

4 But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law,

5 To redeem them that were under the law, that we might receive the adoption of sons.

6 And because ye are sons, God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father.


Christ came when the fullness of time was come. Not before, not after, but at the precise time we are told. That is why the Prophecy of Messiah is called Prophecy.

He came to redeem those who were under the (Covenant of) Law. The point being that until He died no man was redeemed.

In another passage about New Birth we read ...


2 Corinthians 5 KJV

17 Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.

18 And all things are of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation;

19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.


1. those who are in Christ are new creatures, meaning it is they who are born again;

2. Men are reconciled to God through Christ. God was in Christ reconciling men unto Himself. The point being that until Christ came no man was reconciled to God;


No man was in Christ prior to Pentexost. We simply look at Christ's teaching to know that:

Continued...

 

Again, I pointed out that the Old Testament Saints did not receive the promises.

What I did do was forget to point out specifically one of the promises made unto them, the promise of new birth:


Ezekiel 36:24-27 KJV

24 For I will take you from among the heathen, and gather you out of all countries, and will bring you into your own land.

25 Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you.

26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.

27 And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.


This is not a reference to the filling of the Spirit, but of the indwelling.

And note who this promise is given to: Israel.


Romans 9 KJV

4 Who are Israelites; to whom pertaineth the adoption, and the glory, and the covenants, and the giving of the law, and the service of God, and the promises;

This I agree with. There are three audiences among these Hebrew hearers, those who are saved, those who are not saved, and those who have rejected Christ and the New Covenant.

Again, I agree, but that they had faith is not the question. What they had faith in, now that is the question.

And the answer is found in Scripture. Abraham, for example, believed ...

Romans 4 KJV

17 (As it is written, I have made thee a father of many nations,) before him whom he believed, even God, who quickeneth the dead, and calleth those things which be not as though they were.

18 Who against hope believed in hope, that he might become the father of many nations, according to that which was spoken, So shall thy seed be.

19 And being not weak in faith, he considered not his own body now dead, when he was about an hundred years old, neither yet the deadness of Sarah's womb:

20 He staggered not at the promise of God through unbelief; but was strong in faith, giving glory to God;

21 And being fully persuaded that, what he had promised, he was able also to perform.

22 And therefore it was imputed to him for righteousness.


James 2 KJV

21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?

22 Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?

23 And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God.


He was justified, declared righteous—because he believed God would give him a son. That his wife would bear though she was beyond the age of child-bearing. Not that Jesus was the Christ.


Hebrews 11 KJV

17 By faith Abraham, when he was tried, offered up Isaac: and he that had received the promises offered up his only begotten son,

18 Of whom it was said, That in Isaac shall thy seed be called:

19 Accounting that God was able to raise him up, even from the dead; from whence also he received him in a figure.

The word "finisher" is derived from the same root as the words translated perfect, perfected, and perfection.

Jesus is the "Finisher" or the "Completer" of our faith. So again I agree faith is a result of God's work, but the question is what was the object of faith for the Old Testament Saint? The idea that men had knowledge of the Gospel as we do today is denied by Paul's teaching:


Colossians 1:25-27 KJV

25 Whereof I am made a minister, according to the dispensation of God which is given to me for you, to fulfil the word of God;

26 Even the mystery which hath been hid from ages and from generations, but now is made manifest to his saints:

27 To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory:


The riches of the glory of the Gospel Mystery is the indwelling of Christ.

Again, no man was in Christ prior to Pentecost.

That is why Jew and Gentile are distinguished. Ask yourself this: is there a point in time when Jew and Gentile were made one in Christ? When was that time?


Ephesians 2 KJV

11 Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands;

12 That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:

13 But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ.

14 For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us;

15 Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;

16 And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby:


Both Jew and Gentile had to be reconciled. That reconciliation was achieved by God in Christ reconciling men unto Himelf.

Both were reconciled.

Both were made one new man.

That is through regeneration, which is the result of one being baptized into Christ.


God bless.

 

I do understand it, that is why I addressed it. It is teaching error. If you addressed my response you would see that. "I don't know what you're talking about" and "I don't understand your post" are not responses, they are evasion.

I can't address that error in any more detail than I already have. Please go back and take the time to read the responses, and I assure you understanding of the error you are teaching will come.


God bless.

 

You said it here:

The Lord was not regenerated in His Resurrection.

Only the dead need regeneration, not He Who came to bestow Eternal Life.

Does that clarify where I saw that you were teaching the Lord needed to be born again? I have pointed out that you ignored context in your attempt to make "regeneration" which is the restoration of Israel (as well as that of the physical creation during the Millennial Kingdom) the same thing as man's regeneration in new birth.

Again, the singular focus is on this statement above.


God bless.

 

His body was dead. But He is God, and God cannot die. He is also the source of Eternal Life.


John 10:17-19 King James Version

17 Therefore doth my Father love me, because I lay down my life, that I might take it again.

18 No man taketh it from me, but I lay it down of myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This commandment have I received of my Father.


John 1:4 King James Version

4 In him was life; and the life was the light of men.


Christ is the Baptizer, and that He died doesn't change the fact that the life we receive in New Birth (which is Eternal Life) is part of His Nature as God. God is Eternal, having no beginning, no end. That is contrasted with the spirit of men,which has a beginning but is everlasting (which means it will never cease to exist.

God manifest in flesh is still God, His nature doesn't change. When the WORD became flesh, He took upon Himself the flesh of man, rather than the idea that He stepped away from being God and became a man. So basically His glory as God was veiled by the flesh.

When He laid down that flesh, that human "life," He still remained God the Son, Eternal God, the Creator. It is my view that when He died he went to Hades and preached the Gospel to the Just. He then liberated the Just from Sheol/Hades and they went to Heaven.

So what is different when He arose from the grave is this: He was in His glorified body. Now think about that, BrightFlame—have any of those that have been born again received their glorified bodies? The answer is no (though some hold to those who arose from the grave and walked through the city after His resurrection were glorified), in my view.

So we cannot equate either man's existence (his natural condition) with what happened in the Incarnation or Resurrection. Man does not have, nor ever had—a divine nature (though some argue this in regards to "Original Sin):


Hebrews 2:14-17 King James Version

14 Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil;

15 And deliver them who through fear of death were all their lifetime subject to bondage.

16 For verily he took not on him the nature of angels; but he took on him the seed of Abraham.

17 Wherefore in all things it behoved him to be made like unto his brethren, that he might be a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make reconciliation for the sins of the people.


Only a man can die in the stead of a man, thus it was necessary for Him to take upon Himself the flesh of man.

His Resurrection is just that a resurrection. While Regeneration is a resurrection, the difference being, as I said, is that men did not have a divine nature as the Son of God did:


2 Peter 1
King James Version

1 Simon Peter, a servant and an apostle of Jesus Christ, to them that have obtained like precious faith with us through the righteousness of God and our Saviour Jesus Christ:

2 Grace and peace be multiplied unto you through the knowledge of God, and of Jesus our Lord,

3 According as his divine power hath given unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of him that hath called us to glory and virtue:

4 Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.


We are made partakers of the divine nature through the Gospel. That is "the knowledge of Him" Peter speaks about.

Before we are born again/from above/of God we are dead. Without life.



John 6:47-53 King James Version

47 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me hath everlasting life.

48 I am that bread of life.


"Everlasting Life" is the best way to view the life we have when we are baptized into Christ. Man has a point in time when we are conceived, hence we have a beginning. The Son of God does not have a point in time when He began, He is Eternal God. Now understand me when I say this: Christ has a point in time when He began as a man. In other words, the Son of God is Eternal but the Messiah was created in the womb of Mary 2 thousand years ago. That body did not exist prior to the Incarnation (Galatians 4:4-6; Hebrews 10:5). Again, Eternal God took upon Himself the flesh of man for the express purpose of dying in the stead of sinful man. His glory was veiled by that flesh (and I'll post a Scripture after I get through this passage).


49 Your fathers did eat manna in the wilderness, and are dead.

50 This is the bread which cometh down from heaven, that a man may eat thereof, and not die.


His point is not that they were physically dead, but that they did not have eternal life. Remember the rich young ruler? "What must I do to obtain eternal life?" The understanding according to the revelation they had is best seen in Daniel 12:1-2. They believed eternal life was granted at the general resurrection of the dead.

So when Christ states they are dead, his point is that the Old Testament provision for life was physical. He is explaining that He is the provision for spiritual life. The corollary being, that men did not receive eternal life in the Old Testament.

If men eat of the bread that came down from Heaven (the Son of God) they will not die, or in other words they will receive eternal life.


51 I am the living bread which came down from heaven: if any man eat of this bread, he shall live for ever: and the bread that I will give is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world.

The provision is His "flesh." You and I, on this side of Pentecost, can understand He is referring to His death on the Cross. He will give His flesh, His life—that the world might live. Rather than die without eternal life as the fathers who ate of the physical provision for life.


52 The Jews therefore strove among themselves, saying, How can this man give us his flesh to eat?

53 Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, ye have no life in you.


"Eating of His flesh and drinking of His blood" is a reference to believing on His death, burial, and Resurrection.

Note that if one does not do this—they have no life. They are dead.

Again, it is not in a physical sense, but in the spiritual sense. The eternal perspective, not the temporal.

And that is the difference between Christ's Resurrection and the resurrection of the believer in Regeneration. We still have a physical resurrection to undergo in the Rapture, and that is more akin to Christ's resurrection. We will be resurrected unto glorified bodies like as He, but we have already been resurrected in the New Birth and made New Creatures. Christ did not become "a new man" or a "new creature," He was still the Son of God in His Resurrection.

That is just one passage where we see the concept of "life" and "eternal Life" which Christ came to bestow.

Back to God's glory veiled by the flesh He took upon Himself:


Hebrews 10:15-20 King James Version

15 Whereof the Holy Ghost also is a witness to us: for after that he had said before,

16 This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them;

17 And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more.

18 Now where remission of these is, there is no more offering for sin.

19 Having therefore, brethren, boldness to enter into the holiest by the blood of Jesus,

20 By a new and living way, which he hath consecrated for us, through the veil, that is to say, his flesh;


I read one of your other threads and saw that you understand "Perfection," or rather, the completion of the believer in regards to remission of sins. Understanding that one principle allows you to understand Scripture far better than most.

The promise of the New Covenant was just that, a promise, until it was inaugurated by the Death of Christ. Remission of sins in completion was one of the promises.

"The "Holiest" in view is Heaven itself (Hebrews 9:24) and man's entrance to God was made possible through Christ's Death. The veil of the earthly tabernacle (it is never called the Temple, I believe because the Tabernacle, like the Book of Hebrews, has a first relevance to the Hebrew People, and the Tabernacle was specific to them in the wilderness) represented one great Old Testament truth: Man could not come into God's presence. The High Priest came into the shadow/figure/parable of God's presence in the Tabernacle, and only he, and only once a year.

So picture the High Priest walking through that veil into the presence of God. Now picture the reality of the shadow and see Christ coming into the presence of God through the veil that was the flesh He took upon Himself.

Pretty cool, no?

Okay, I might have to make this two posts, I have been, as KYredneck likes to say about me—rambling! lol


God bless.

 

I agree, His Body needed to be resurrected.

What has that got to do with the Giver of Life needing to be born again?


God bless.

 

Regeneration is not physical resurrection. It is spiritual. Thus you are saying that Chist was in need of regeneration, contrary to the teaching of Scripture:

Hebrews 4:15
For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin.

God did not need to be born again.


God bless.

 

Regeneration is not "being made alive again."

Do you think you had eternal life before you were born again, BrightFlame?

God bless.

 

Let me ask again, because I am not sure your "yes" is in answer to the question, and I want to be sure before I respond:

 

Regeneration is the sovereign work God the Holy Spirit of granting spiritual life to each Christian, raising them from the dead so that they are now able to repent and trust in Christ as a new creation.
Regeneration - The Gospel Coalition

What does the Bible say?
Ephesians 1:3-14

Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us in Christ with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places, even as he chose us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and blameless before him. In love he predestined us for adoption as sons through Jesus Christ, according to the purpose of his will, to the praise of his glorious grace, with which he has blessed us in the Beloved. In him we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of our trespasses, according to the riches of his grace, which he lavished upon us, in all wisdom and insight making known to us the mystery of his will, according to his purpose, which he set forth in Christ as a plan for the fullness of time, to unite all things in him, things in heaven and things on earth. In him we have obtained an inheritance, having been predestined according to the purpose of him who works all things according to the counsel of his will, so that we who were the first to hope in Christ might be to the praise of his glory. In him you also, when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and believed in him, were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit, who is the guarantee of our inheritance until we acquire possession of it, to the praise of his glory.