The Day TULIP Died

[JonC]

Jon the part in red is a direct quote from God's Word. Are you that lazy? I highlighted it in red so you would read it and see it.
1 Peter 2:7-8
So the honor is for you who believe, but for those who do not believe, “The stone that the builders rejected has become the cornerstone,” and “A stone of stumbling, and a rock of offense.” They stumble because they disobey the word, as they were destined to do.

If you need to...go grab a paper Bible, open it up to 1 Peter 2:7-8 and read it yourself.

Here's the KJV
Unto you therefore which believe he is precious: but unto them which be disobedient, the stone which the builders disallowed, the same is made the head of the corner,And a stone of stumbling, and a rock of offence, even to them which stumble at the word, being disobedient: whereunto also they were appointed. - 1 Peter 2:7-8

NASB
This precious value, then, is for you who believe; but for unbelievers, “ A stone which the builders rejected, This became the chief cornerstone ,”and, “ A stone of stumbling and a rock of offense ”; for they stumble because they are disobedient to the word, and to this they were also appointed. - 1 Peter 2:7-8

Jon, your unwillingness to accept God's Word is noted.

Context matters (the fuller passage)

1 Peter 2:7–11 This precious value, then, is for you who believe; but for those who disbelieve,
“The stone which the builders rejected,
This became the very corner stone,”
8 and,
“A stone of stumbling and a rock of offense”;
for they stumble because they are disobedient to the word, and to this doom they were also appointed.
9 But you are a chosen race, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a people for God’s own possession, so that you may proclaim the excellencies of Him who has called you out of darkness into His marvelous light;
10 for you once were not a people, but now you are the people of God; you had not received mercy, but now you have received mercy.
11 Beloved, I urge you as aliens and strangers to abstain from fleshly lusts which wage war against the soul.

You forget that I believe in predestination.

What I reject is not God's Word but your (lead by Reformed books) manipulation of God's Word.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

Jon, I find you to be a very deceptive person. You are not worth speaking to as you speak falsehoods without blinking.

Wow Austin…..don’t candy coat it, tell him what you really think.

 

[Aaron]

Jon, I find you to be a very deceptive person. You are not worth speaking to as you speak falsehoods without blinking.

Bingo. Not just here, but also in politics and covid, but I repeat myself.

 

[JonC]

Wow Austin…..don’t candy coat it, tell him what you really think.

As you know, bro., Some here can't stand it if they are not coddled.

And, like you, I ain't much for coddling.

 

[AustinC]

Wow Austin…..don’t candy coat it, tell him what you really think.

I would have been banned if I said what I really think about humanists who have fallen away from the gospel of grace.

 

[JonC]

I would have been banned if I said what I really think about humanists who have fallen away from the gospel of grace.

Why? I believe humanists who have fallen away from the gospel of grace are not Christian at all. It just takes courage to say so, to stand for truth.

First, humanism is in opposition to Christianity as humanists place prime importance on man over God (humanity over divine matters).

Second, one cannot fall away from the gospel of grace without falling away from the Source of that grace.

To those perishing this gospel is foolishness, but to me...to those of us who are saved....it is the power of God.

When one can no longer proclaim this, can no longer state the truth of the gospel of Jesus Christ our of fear of humanists, political correctness, or the world's opinions....well ..they are no longer fit for kingdom work.

 

[Silverhair]

Yea, keep telling yourself that. You got enough people disagreeing with you. Actually I see you as a kinda Calvinist…. You certainly use their techniques to support your own concepts about theology just as they do! I have to admit that this preoccupation with the question of whether a person is born again or not doesn’t enter into my frame of reference. It doesn’t enter my mind to question whether a person is a child of God or not. I simply try to treat every person I meet with respect and try to behave myself as the Lord calls me to behave. Like I don’t question someone’s denomination, beliefs, salvation, politics etc. You on the other hand seem to delight in challenging peoples beliefs, even making claims to their interpretation of scriptures as another gospel. Personally, I find that tact to be extremely disconcerting.

Well if the bible tells us to confront false gospels then I think it is a good idea to do so.

 

[Silverhair]

1. We all deserve hell as sinners

2. God is perfectly right and good to send all of us to hell. God is not obligated to save anyone

3. The fact that God would save anyone speaks to His love

4. If God chose to save only 1 person throughout all of human history, He has shown that He is love

I agree completely with what you have said.

Where we run into trouble is that the calvinist has God doing a pick and choose operation. God has said those that believe will be saved but for the calvinist you have to be saved before you can believe. They need to trust the bible more.

 

[canadyjd]

Well if the bible tells us to confront false gospels then I think it is a good idea to do so.

Which is why I continually point out that your view….

“many are saved having never heard the gospel”

is a false gospel.

peace to you

 

[Silverhair]

Any man, or some men?

Any man, for salvation, has to come willingly. But according to you He drags people against their will, such is the love your version of God has for His creation.

 

[Silverhair]

Really?
In Romans 1 (at the end) was it God’s pre-selection that condemned those people, or did God simply release His grip of restraint and allow them to freely pursue their “heart’s desires”?

It is your theology that sets up those conditions as you well know. Read your DoG actually you only need to look at the ULI to see what calvinism leads to. Remember even their "hearts desire" is something that your calvinist God gives them so it really is God that makes all those choices not the man. You just refuse to see it.

I have shown this to a number of calvinists and you just brush it of as "not what I believe" really! This is your DoG, is this not what you keep saying is the gospel?

The Gospel call in calvinism is not a well meant call or sincere offer. Only those that are included in the Unconditional Election will partake of the Limited Atonement and will be drawn to God by His Irresistible Grace. So all men do not have an equal chance to know or trust in God. Their own theology precludes this, but they just do not want to acknowledge that fact.

 

[37818]

Yep, that's another that people read via their presuppositions rather than allowing Scripture to stand on its own.

Scripture says (Matthew 20:28): " just as the Son of Man did not come to be served, but to serve, and to give His life a ransom for many.”


How is that read - "and to give His life a ransom for many” or "and to give His life in place of many”?

MLV ". . . just-like the Son of Man did not come to be served to, but to serve and to give his life as a redemption in exchange-for many. . . ."

 

[Silverhair]

And who is free indeed, but him that the Son sets free?

In the context of the verse you referenced, those that are free are those that freely trust in Christ Jesus for their salvation.

He will set you free form the grip of sin on your eternal soul and He is the only one that can.

 

[Silverhair]

I would have been banned if I said what I really think about humanists who have fallen away from the gospel of grace.

But it would be more correct to say you have fallen away from the gospel of the bible.

 

[Silverhair]

Which is why I continually point out that your view….

“many are saved having never heard the gospel”

is a false gospel.

peace to you

Then you need to trust in the sovereign God of the bible more and less in the one your theology presents. You end up having a very week god.

 

[AustinC]

Any man, for salvation, has to come willingly. But according to you He drags people against their will, such is the love your version of God has for His creation.

Remain blind to scripture if this is what you think. Clearly you don't know scripture if you balk at being dragged to faith in God.

 

[canadyjd]

Then you need to trust in the sovereign God of the bible more and less in the one your theology presents. You end up having a very week god.

How can you claim to trust the “Sovereign God of the Bible” when you reject the Bible and embrace the unbiblical belief “many are saved having never heard the gospel”?

You end up rejecting the Sovereign God of the Bible and conjuring a god that conforms to your humanistic views. You make the sacrifice of Christ unnecessary. You diminish His position within the Godhead as Firstborn and mediator and High Priest. You make the Only True God a liar because scripture repeatedly affirms the necessity of the gospel of Jesus Christ and Him crucified for salvation.

You remove “Christ and Him crucified” from your gospel and then are blind to the fact you are preaching “another gospel”, condemned by scripture and, as Paul says, are worthy of being accursed.

I truly fear for you. Our God is a consuming fire and your view that “many are saved having never heard the gospel” will certainly bring the discipline of God upon you as “God disciplines those He loves”.

peace to you

 

[Aaron]

In the context of the verse you referenced, those that are free are those that freely trust in Christ Jesus for their salvation.

He will set you free form the grip of sin on your eternal soul and He is the only one that can.

So, in context, the Son isn't really setting anyone free.

So, we were not taken captive by the devil at his will? 2 Timothy 2:26 , and it isn't God that gives repentance? 2 Timothy 2:25 .

 

[Silverhair]

Remain blind to scripture if this is what you think. Clearly you don't know scripture if you balk at being dragged to faith in God.

Being that you are a calvinist that would work for you , but since I believe the bible God does not have to drag me or anyone to Him. Just shows you really do not know your bible that well.

 

[Silverhair]

How can you claim to trust the “Sovereign God of the Bible” when you reject the Bible and embrace the unbiblical belief “many are saved having never heard the gospel”?

You end up rejecting the Sovereign God of the Bible and conjuring a god that conforms to your humanistic views. You make the sacrifice of Christ unnecessary. You diminish His position within the Godhead as Firstborn and mediator and High Priest. You make the Only True God a liar because scripture repeatedly affirms the necessity of the gospel of Jesus Christ and Him crucified for salvation.

You remove “Christ and Him crucified” from your gospel and then are blind to the fact you are preaching “another gospel”, condemned by scripture and, as Paul says, are worthy of being accursed.

I truly fear for you. Our God is a consuming fire and your view that “many are saved having never heard the gospel” will certainly bring the discipline of God upon you as “God disciplines those He loves”.

peace to you

You really need to read Heb 11 without those glasses. Your letting your calvinism cloud your mind.