The Day TULIP Died

[Silverhair]

So, in context, the Son isn't really setting anyone free.

So, we were not taken captive by the devil at his will? 2 Timothy 2:26 , and it isn't God that gives repentance? 2 Timothy 2:25 .

There is the problem with calvinism, you are incapable of doing anything unless God directs it then you claim that God does not direct sin because you do not like that but your theology requires it not the bible. Your theology has so many holes in it that it leaks like a sieve. Total contradiction.

Good thing that most people do not follow calvinism.

 

[Salty]

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[JonC]

MLV ". . . just-like the Son of Man did not come to be served to, but to serve and to give his life as a redemption in exchange-for many. . . ."

I don't believe in sifting through translations until we find one we like.

That said, some would read that Christ gave "his life as a redemption in exchange-for many" to read that God punished Christ instead of us.

They read what is not there. Why? They allow their presuppositions to influence their reading (they read into Scripture rather than allowing Scripture to dictate their faith).

AND they are often blind to this. They truly believe their preconceived ideas are in the text because the text is close enough. They do not believe every word of Scripture is important or intentional, but instead they turn to the Bible to support what they have already decided to believe.

 

[JonC]

Remain blind to scripture if this is what you think. Clearly you don't know scripture if you balk at being dragged to faith in God.

The issue is you are not talking about actual Scripture. You are talking about what you believe Scripture teaches.

And this has led you into sin - rather than disagreeing with and did using doctrine you have ventured into judging Another's servant.

 

[JonC]

This is an illustration of what I am talking about, @37818 :

I say "It's a little hazy today"

Someone reads "JonC says there is a lot of smog in the city this morning, therefore JonC is advocating for alternate energy and a ban on fossil fuels to reduce pollution."

This is what we see people doing all the time with Scripture.

The Bible says Christ ransomed us, that Christ died for our sins and we were purchased with His blood.

They read that Christ died instead of us, God punished Him instead of punishing us."

See what I mean. What they read is not in the Bible. It is not even actually taught by "what is written" but is a presupposed idea that colors their reading of Scripture. And they do not even realize this - they do not see what they are adding to God's Word.

That is the danger of unchecked presuppositions.

 

[Reformed1689]

Any man, for salvation, has to come willingly. But according to you He drags people against their will, such is the love your version of God has for His creation.

Well seeing as how the Bible says nobody wants God...... I know that is inconvenient for you,

 

[Reformed1689]

My theology is from the bible. For me it is the bible first, last and always. The bible is clear and will support itself.

Maybe your twisted version of the Bible.

 

[Reformed1689]

Read your DoG without the tinted glasses. God can and does allow for man to have a real free will but you claim that man can only freely sin, that is nonsense but you hold to it.

Jesus must have thought man could make real choices:
Mat_16:24 "If anyone desires to come after Me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow Me.
Joh_8:31 "If you abide in My word, you are My disciples indeed.
Joh_8:52 'If anyone keeps My word he shall never taste death.'

So if God believes that man can make free will choices why do you not?

So when God says He desires all men to be saved, do you believe that? When He tells man to "turn and live" do you think He meant "I will make you turn and live"?

God says He is the savior of all men, but your theology say only some men.

Your theology needs a rethink.

So I noticed you did not actually address my post. Telling...

 

[Reformed1689]

I told you why I left Calvinism.

After ditching Calvinism I came to see that Scripture makes sense without it.

You left Calvinism because you became a humanist. Plain and simple.

 

[AustinC]

How can you claim to trust the “Sovereign God of the Bible” when you reject the Bible and embrace the unbiblical belief “many are saved having never heard the gospel”?

You end up rejecting the Sovereign God of the Bible and conjuring a god that conforms to your humanistic views. You make the sacrifice of Christ unnecessary. You diminish His position within the Godhead as Firstborn and mediator and High Priest. You make the Only True God a liar because scripture repeatedly affirms the necessity of the gospel of Jesus Christ and Him crucified for salvation.

You remove “Christ and Him crucified” from your gospel and then are blind to the fact you are preaching “another gospel”, condemned by scripture and, as Paul says, are worthy of being accursed.

I truly fear for you. Our God is a consuming fire and your view that “many are saved having never heard the gospel” will certainly bring the discipline of God upon you as “God disciplines those He loves”.

peace to you

Correct. One wonders whether the gospel of God's grace is understood or if it's rejected.

This is an illustration of what I am talking about, @37818 :

I say "It's a little hazy today"

Someone reads "JonC says there is a lot of smog in the city this morning, therefore JonC is advocating for alternate energy and a ban on fossil fuels to reduce pollution."

This is what we see people doing all the time with Scripture.

The Bible says Christ ransomed us, that Christ died for our sins and we were purchased with His blood.

They read that Christ died instead of us, God punished Him instead of punishing us."

See what I mean. What they read is not in the Bible. It is not even actually taught by "what is written" but is a presupposed idea that colors their reading of Scripture. And they do not even realize this - they do not see what they are adding to God's Word.

That is the danger of unchecked presuppositions.

Jon, your unchecked presuppositions are noted.
Moreso, your incapacity to exegete any Bible passage while railing against straw men you have created is also noted.
As per your m. o. you provide empty words full of posture, yet with no substance. Like a peacock, you strut around with feathers out, but provide nothing of substance.

There are people at the BB who intentionally promote human-centered philosophy and propose it to be gospel. Your posts follow that pattern. Congratulations in providing no spiritual edification to the board.

 

[AustinC]

This is an illustration of what I am talking about, @37818 :

I say "It's a little hazy today"

Someone reads "JonC says there is a lot of smog in the city this morning, therefore JonC is advocating for alternate energy and a ban on fossil fuels to reduce pollution."

This is what we see people doing all the time with Scripture.

The Bible says Christ ransomed us, that Christ died for our sins and we were purchased with His blood.

They read that Christ died instead of us, God punished Him instead of punishing us."

See what I mean. What they read is not in the Bible. It is not even actually taught by "what is written" but is a presupposed idea that colors their reading of Scripture. And they do not even realize this - they do not see what they are adding to God's Word.

That is the danger of unchecked presuppositions.

1 Peter 2:21-25
For to this you have been called, because Christ also suffered for you, leaving you an example, so that you might follow in his steps. He committed no sin, neither was deceit found in his mouth. When he was reviled, he did not revile in return; when he suffered, he did not threaten, but continued entrusting himself to him who judges justly. He himself bore our sins in his body on the tree, that we might die to sin and live to righteousness. By his wounds you have been healed. For you were straying like sheep, but have now returned to the Shepherd and Overseer of your souls.

Sigh...you are tiresome in your rejection of God's word. Will you also falsely claim that I added to scripture here as well? I did not change the font color so as not to confuse you, but perhaps you will now falsely claim that the bold is not found in the Bible.

Based on your incapacity to exegete God's Word, it is increasingly evident you have found your philosophy in extra biblical writings.

 

[37818]

I don't believe in sifting through translations until we find one we like.

That said, some would read that Christ gave "his life as a redemption in exchange-for many" to read that God punished Christ instead of us.

They read what is not there. Why? They allow their presuppositions to influence their reading (they read into Scripture rather than allowing Scripture to dictate their faith).

AND they are often blind to this. They truly believe their preconceived ideas are in the text because the text is close enough. They do not believe every word of Scripture is important or intentional, but instead they turn to the Bible to support what they have already decided to believe.

The problem is what is being denied. ,What is the atonement to be called? Isaiah 53:6, ". . . the LORD hath laid on him the iniquity of us all. . . ." Romans 6:23, ". . . the wages of sin is death . . . ." Romans 5:8, ". . . while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us. . . ." What should this Biblically to be called?

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

I will caution you all that when people adopt an “I’m-more-spiritual-than-you-because-I-tithe…or homeschool…or whatever…blah blah blah mindset, a culture of legalism prevails. That kind of psychological manipulation threatens to destroy the church. That’s the aspect of this view that troubles me the most. What you are all forgetting is that Sunday-morning sins, like When people adopt an “I’m-more-spiritual-than-you-because-I-tithe…or homeschool…or wear a bonnet…or make my own bread…or don’t have a television…or take notes in church” mindset, a culture of legalism prevails. That kind of psychological manipulation threatens to destroy the church. That’s the aspect of this view that troubles me the most. What these people forget is that Sunday-morning sins, like self-righteousness and judgmentalism, are just as heinous in the sight of God as Saturday-night sins, like drunkenness and debauchery. And I refuse to be a part of it. So let all the legalists, absolutist and universalists consider their theological positions and stop the weaponizing before throwing rocks at fellow Christians. I’m out!!! God bless.

 

[Reynolds]

I will caution you all that when people adopt an “I’m-more-spiritual-than-you-because-I-tithe…or homeschool…or whatever…blah blah blah mindset, a culture of legalism prevails. That kind of psychological manipulation threatens to destroy the church. That’s the aspect of this view that troubles me the most. What these people forget is that Sunday-morning sins, like self-righteousness and judgmentalism, are just as heinous in the sight of God as Saturday-night sins, like drunkenness and debauchery. And I refuse to be a part of it. So let all the legalists, absolutes and universalists consider their theological positions and stop the weaponizing before throwing rocks at fellow Christians. I’m out!!! God bless.

I would also caution you that the Pauline Epistles instruct the Church to judge. Church discipline is commanded, not suggested. Church discipline is judgment. By their fruits, ye shall know them. You don't discount fruits because you are afraid to appear judgmental.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

I would also caution you that the Pauline Epistles instruct the Church to judge. Church discipline is commanded, not suggested. Church discipline is judgment. By their fruits, ye shall know them. You don't discount fruits because you are afraid to appear judgmental.

Then I’m free to judge you via my theological prospective as a Old School Baptist. But since I’m a follower I would tell you that we do not throw rocks or set ourselves up as the righteous ones… maybe that’s why I’m proud to be a member.

 

[AustinC]

I will caution you all that when people adopt an “I’m-more-spiritual-than-you-because-I-tithe…or homeschool…or whatever…blah blah blah mindset, a culture of legalism prevails. That kind of psychological manipulation threatens to destroy the church. That’s the aspect of this view that troubles me the most. What you are all forgetting is that Sunday-morning sins, like When people adopt an “I’m-more-spiritual-than-you-because-I-tithe…or homeschool…or wear a bonnet…or make my own bread…or don’t have a television…or take notes in church” mindset, a culture of legalism prevails. That kind of psychological manipulation threatens to destroy the church. That’s the aspect of this view that troubles me the most. What these people forget is that Sunday-morning sins, like self-righteousness and judgmentalism, are just as heinous in the sight of God as Saturday-night sins, like drunkenness and debauchery. And I refuse to be a part of it. So let all the legalists, absolutist and universalists consider their theological positions and stop the weaponizing before throwing rocks at fellow Christians. I’m out!!! God bless.

Irony abounds in your post.

 

[Salty]

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