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Romans 5:1
- Thread starter Van
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1) You hold some false doctrine, and 2) You're very often not clear. For instance:
"Washing of regeneration" is just a way of saying born again. It's not describing a process by which we receive righteousness. The righteousness we receive by faith is Christ's righteousness. No one's faith apart from that is counted as righteousness.
You can present Calvinism"s false doctrines till the cows come home. They are false and no supported in scripture.
Any empty suit and post "taint so" but personal incredulity is fallacious argumentation.
The bible says Christ laid down His life as a ransom for all, including those never to be saved. 2 Peter 2:1, 1 Timothy 2:6.
The bible says we are chosen for salvation conditionally, through faith in the truth. 2 Thessalonians 2:13
The bible says Paul spoke using spiritual milk as to men of flesh, thus the lost can understand and respond to the fundamentals of the gospel. 1 Corinthians 3:1-3.
The bible refers to his faith, or your faith, but never your [God instilled] faith. Thus Calvinism is completely bogus.
NASB
Therefore, having been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ,
One of the things I was taught as part of learning how to study scripture was to ask, "What is the therefore therefore?"
The Greek word, "oun" G3767 when used as a conjunction ties what has been presented to its conclusion, thus could also be translated as "accordingly or consequently." The idea is you need to look at the prior verses to see what is being concluded.
Here a chapter break (end of chapter 4, start of chapter 5) also artificially breaks up the passage. Romans 4:23-25 is thus summarized by Romans 5:1.
Romans 4:23- 5:1
Now not for his sake only was it written that it was credited to him,
but for our sake also, to whom it [righteousness] will be credited, to us who believe in Him who raised Jesus our Lord from the dead,
He who was delivered over because of our wrongdoings, and was raised because of our justification.
Therefore, having been justified on the basis of faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ,
Therefore, having been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ,
One of the things I was taught as part of learning how to study scripture was to ask, "What is the therefore therefore?"
The Greek word, "oun" G3767 when used as a conjunction ties what has been presented to its conclusion, thus could also be translated as "accordingly or consequently." The idea is you need to look at the prior verses to see what is being concluded.
Here a chapter break (end of chapter 4, start of chapter 5) also artificially breaks up the passage. Romans 4:23-25 is thus summarized by Romans 5:1.
Romans 4:23- 5:1
Now not for his sake only was it written that it was credited to him,
but for our sake also, to whom it [righteousness] will be credited, to us who believe in Him who raised Jesus our Lord from the dead,
He who was delivered over because of our wrongdoings, and was raised because of our justification.
Therefore, having been justified on the basis of faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ,
Slightly expanding the scope of this thread, let us consider the phrase (from Romans 4:25, NASB) "raised because of our justification." Some might think Christ's resurrection was the result of our justification based on this translation choice. However the Greek word translated "because" by the NASB is "dia" and can be translated as "for the sake of." This is the choice of the NET bible and is, in my opinion, the superior choice.
How does raising Christ result in a benefit of our justification. Look back to verse 24, and "who believe in Him who raised Jesus." Thus the fact we believe God raised Jesus is part of the faith God credits as righteousness, and that results, when we are placed into Christ, in our justification.
The LEB also makes a better choice, was raised in the interest of our justification. (Evidence of God's existence and power in which we can trust!)
How does raising Christ result in a benefit of our justification. Look back to verse 24, and "who believe in Him who raised Jesus." Thus the fact we believe God raised Jesus is part of the faith God credits as righteousness, and that results, when we are placed into Christ, in our justification.
The LEB also makes a better choice, was raised in the interest of our justification. (Evidence of God's existence and power in which we can trust!)
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Turning now to the last phrase in our verse, "through our Lord Jesus Christ." Here the Greek word is the preposition "dia" and when used to show instrumentality, could be translated "by the meritorious action of" our Lord Jesus Christ.
So here is an interpretive translation, As a result of God crediting our faith, having been justified on the basis of our credited faith, we have peace with God by the meritorious action of our Lord Jesus Christ.
So here is an interpretive translation, As a result of God crediting our faith, having been justified on the basis of our credited faith, we have peace with God by the meritorious action of our Lord Jesus Christ.
Almost all Christians would claim to believe we were justified by faith, and perhaps quote Romans 3:28, which says we are justified by faith and not by the works of the Law. If pressed, many Christians would define “works of the law” as the actions we take to conform to the requirements of the Law, rather than what the “law” actually accomplishes, which is to make us aware of our sin and lead us to Christ.
So lets back up and ask the question, justified by whose faith? Does our faith justify us? If we took a poll, would not a large group, perhaps even a majority, say our faith justifies us? But that would be a works based salvation would it not. Ah but you say faith is not a work.
Maybe we should back up again and consider “justified by whom?” Were we justified by what we did or by what Christ did on the cross? The free gift of justification to life was provided by Christ on the cross, Romans 5:18. So it was Christ’s faithfulness, even unto death on the cross, which provided the propitiation for the whole world. So then the question becomes, how did we “receive” that gift or have that gift applied to us individually?
So it would seem, then that our faith in Christ provides access to Christ’s free gift of justification by the grace of God. But does that too miss the mark? I think so. Would not our faith in effect “save us” then and make us the actual architect of our salvation?
So if our placing our faith in Christ does not automatically save us, then God must credit our faith as righteousness and spiritually place us “in Christ” which saves us because in Christ we receive the justification to life provided by Christ. Wow now that is a systematic theology that fits with all scripture.
So lets back up and ask the question, justified by whose faith? Does our faith justify us? If we took a poll, would not a large group, perhaps even a majority, say our faith justifies us? But that would be a works based salvation would it not. Ah but you say faith is not a work.
Maybe we should back up again and consider “justified by whom?” Were we justified by what we did or by what Christ did on the cross? The free gift of justification to life was provided by Christ on the cross, Romans 5:18. So it was Christ’s faithfulness, even unto death on the cross, which provided the propitiation for the whole world. So then the question becomes, how did we “receive” that gift or have that gift applied to us individually?
So it would seem, then that our faith in Christ provides access to Christ’s free gift of justification by the grace of God. But does that too miss the mark? I think so. Would not our faith in effect “save us” then and make us the actual architect of our salvation?
So if our placing our faith in Christ does not automatically save us, then God must credit our faith as righteousness and spiritually place us “in Christ” which saves us because in Christ we receive the justification to life provided by Christ. Wow now that is a systematic theology that fits with all scripture.
I missed the part where you supported your conjecture from scripture. Do you agree that that the saved are made alive, regenerated, born anew "together with Christ" and thus God chooses to transfer the person into Christ spiritually, based on crediting their faith as righteousness. Romans 5:1
You didn't miss it. I have shared Ephesians 2:1-9 with you innumerable times. Will you answer my question?
Would you agree that:
The moment God makes a person alive with Christ and grants them faith, they are also justified by that faith and made righteous before God.
Or do you take exception to what I have stated?
God takes the person who is still dead in sin and He makes them alive with Christ. By grace He saves us, gives us faith, and justifies as righteous by the faith which He gave us. It's all God, none of us. Why do you reject this truth?
Ephesians 2:1-9
And you were dead in the trespasses and sins in which you once walked, following the course of this world, following the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that is now at work in the sons of disobedience— among whom we all once lived in the passions of our flesh, carrying out the desires of the body and the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, like the rest of mankind. But God, being rich in mercy, because of the great love with which he loved us, even when we were dead in our trespasses, made us alive together with Christ—by grace you have been saved— and raised us up with him and seated us with him in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus, so that in the coming ages he might show the immeasurable riches of his grace in kindness toward us in Christ Jesus. For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast.
Silverhair
Well-Known Member
Actually it has been pointed out to you numerous times that your understanding of the text Eph 2:1-9 is in error. You read into the text what you want to find. You keep saying that God gives man faith to believe and use these verses to prove your point but they actually prove just the opposite. We are saved because we believe.
Eph 2:1 And you He made alive, who were dead in trespasses and sins,
Eph 2:2 in which you once walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit who now works in the sons of disobedience,
Eph 2:3 among whom also we all once conducted ourselves in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, just as the others.
Eph 2:4 But God, who is rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us,
Eph 2:5 even when we were dead in trespasses, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved),
Eph 2:6 and raised us up together, and made us sit together in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus,
Eph 2:7 that in the ages to come He might show the exceeding riches of His grace in His kindness toward us in Christ Jesus.
Eph 2:8 For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God,
Eph 2:9 not of works, lest anyone should boast.
Since you seem to doubt what the text says we just have to look back to
Eph 1:13 In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise,
Now I know you are going to say that "the gift of God" is faith but once again Paul shows us what he meant.
Rom 6:23 For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.
The Gift of God is salvation for all those that are in Christ Jesus, those that trust in the Son.
Why do you continue to struggle with the truth of scripture.
Rom 10:17 So then faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.
Heb 11:6 But without faith it is impossible to please Him, for he who comes to God must believe that He is, and that He is a rewarder of those who diligently seek Him.
Why are you wasting posts, asking over and over the same questions that I have answered "innumerable time." God credits our faith, as worthless as it may be, as righteousness. Thus God does not instill "His faith" into the lost via irresistible grace.
Here is an interpretive translation,
Note that "therefore" has been replaced with the concept of the preceding passage.
The Greek proposition "ek" has been translated as "on the basis of."
Faith has been described according to the concept of the passage.
The Greek proposition "dia" has been translated to show instrumentality.
May God bless you as you open your bibles and seek understanding through prayer, study and meditation.
As a result of God crediting our faith, having been justified on the basis of our credited faith, we have peace with God by the meritorious action of our Lord Jesus Christ.
Note that "therefore" has been replaced with the concept of the preceding passage.
The Greek proposition "ek" has been translated as "on the basis of."
Faith has been described according to the concept of the passage.
The Greek proposition "dia" has been translated to show instrumentality.
May God bless you as you open your bibles and seek understanding through prayer, study and meditation.
Sounds like you agree with my statement.
The moment God makes a person alive with Christ and grants them faith, they are also justified by that faith and made righteous before God.
God takes the person who is still dead in sin and He makes them alive with Christ. By grace He saves us, gives us faith, and justifies us as righteous by the faith which He gave us.
Do you have a problem with what I have said?
Silverhair
Well-Known Member
Well it looks like Austin either has me on ignore or just does not like to answer posts that show his view is in error. I pointed out his errors in post # 31 but no response.
Austin you just repeat the same lines that have been shown to be in error. Just because you repeat them does not make them true.
Do you think God has given us more than one gift, Silverhair? From your post, here, it seems you cannot fathom that God has gifted us salvation, faith, grace upon grace, eternal life, etc. You see, Silverhair, God showers His children with gifts, purely out of his grace, without us having to merit one thing.
Yet, here you are pimping merited salvation by human choice. You simply parrot a variation of the Judaizers in Galatians and then tell me I am wrong to preach salvation by grace alone.
canadyjd
Well-Known Member
It is a “forensic justification” that is a legal determination in a court of law. God is declaring them “not guilty” essentially, based upon faith in Christ Jesus, and therefore they have peace with God.
The passage isn’t really addressing how they got there, only the results of being there.
peace to you
Silverhair
Well-Known Member
Austin you just keep saying the same thing but do not provide any scripture to support it. You ignore the scripture that I have shown you. Why is that? Your theology has blinded you and from what I have read of your posts you reject clear scripture and hold to the errant view that gives you that false sense of security that you need.
Silver, I have provided volumes of scripture for you, which you either ignore or you reinterpret so that man is glorified above God. You consistently complain about God having authority over man. Then you tell us how God must be subordinate under man's will in order for God to be loving.
Why do you hate salvation by grace alone?
Silverhair
Well-Known Member
Why do you continue to ignore the scripture that I have shown you? You complain because I do not agree with your calvinist view. But you refuse to follow the bible unless you can fit it into your theology. When I post scripture you say it does nor mean what it says. You have constantly misrepresented what I say but I have gotten used to that coming from most of the calvinists I have dealt with.
The bible is the standard we are to hold to not your calvinism. God has given man a will, which by nature is free, i.e., it is not forced or necessarily inclined toward good or evil. You continue to reject this and say that man only has a free will so as to sin but the bible shows that man is expected to make real choices that have a real effect on their eternal future. How would that be possible without a free will?
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