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Featured Romans 5:1

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by Van, May 26, 2022.

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  1. Alan Gross

    Alan Gross Well-Known Member

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    Faith is in Jesus.

    Faith has an OBJECT.

    The OBJECT of Faith is Jesus.

    Abrahams's Faith was in Jesus.

    The Righteousness of Jesus' PERFECT LIFE, Death, Burial, and Resurrection were then Imputed to Abraham, as it is all Believers.

    It's Called, "Salvation".

    Faith in Jesus.

    Jesus is the Savior.

    Get that.
     
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  2. Silverhair

    Silverhair Well-Known Member

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    I notice that you never deal with the scripture you just blow and bluster. It is your blind loyalty to your calvinism that is your failure. You have to filter the bible through it.

    I really do not care if you like what I say but you really need to start trusting what the bible says. Ignoring clear scripture in favour of your theological view is as you said a sign of insanity.

    Perhaps one day your eyes will be opened to the truth of scripture but that will require that you remove the blinders.
     
  3. Alan Gross

    Alan Gross Well-Known Member

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    The Eternal Plan of Salvation. The Whole Counsel of God and the Covenant between and among The Triune Godhead is, "The Truth". Every Scripture Teaches what you shortsightedly call, "Calvinism".
     
  4. Silverhair

    Silverhair Well-Known Member

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    The bible does indeed teach The Eternal Plan of Salvation. The Whole Counsel of God and the Covenant between and among The Triune Godhead and much more. That is why I trust what the bible says in clear English.

    Calvinism has to twist or change scripture to make it fit. When you have to do that then that means you are not trusting scripture rather you are trusting what you want scripture to say. Many of the calvinists on here, by times, sound like my sister-in-law. As she always says the bible is to be believed as far as it has been correctly translated. She's a Mormon.
     
  5. Alan Gross

    Alan Gross Well-Known Member

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    "we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ,"

    Salvation is the Activity of God, through Jesus Christ.

    Jesus is the Savior.
     
  6. AustinC

    AustinC Well-Known Member

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    Your humanist theology is not that different from hers, Silverhair.
     
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  7. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    You are quite right, you have provided no clarification upon which to respond. Does God credit the whole person of just his or her faith according to scripture? My view, just his or her faith has been presented. Does "declared righteous" apply to humans declaring themselves righteous? My view is yes.

    What explicit verse says God declares an individual righteous, rather than God justified? Clearly all the support comes from translator choices as those same verses are also rendered justified. Whereas the ones stating God makes a person righteous contain the Greek word meaning made.
     
  8. canadyjd

    canadyjd Well-Known Member

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    And so we disagree. Thanks for the conversation.

    peace to you
     
  9. Silverhair

    Silverhair Well-Known Member

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    YES
     
  10. Silverhair

    Silverhair Well-Known Member

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    You keep calling me a humanist, even though I have told you repeatedly that I am a Christian. Get your facts straight. You do not like the fact that I point out the errors in your theology but there is not need for you to be insulting. Is that just you calvinist arrogance coming through or is that just your true nature?

    The errors in your understanding of scripture have been pointed out to you by a number of people. I would not say your stance on calvinism is a sign of insanity, just that you are very confused.

    I notice you still avoid dealing with the scripture that I posted again at post # 49. The truth of scripture seems to be something that you want to avoid, why is that?
     
  11. AustinC

    AustinC Well-Known Member

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    I have stated that your theology is humanist. Therefore you approach God with the idea that you have free will authority over God. This is your teaching. There is no confusion in the matter and many here at the BB recognize your theology as such. Moreso, your Mormon friend would claim to be a Christian so merely claiming the title is empty of substance.

    You certainly imagine I am in error as you deny the Supremacy of Christ Jesus over and above your fleshly will. To believe that God is Supreme is anathama to your line of thinking. It doesn't bother me in the slightest that you disagree with me. On this matter God's Word fully supports me while you fall in your face in failure.
     
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  12. Silverhair

    Silverhair Well-Known Member

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    Your lack of comprehension skills is astounding. Do you actually read my posts or do you just run off with your calvinist rants?

    I have shown a great deal of patience in dealing with your childish comments, if and when you decide to start acting like an adult then we can continue to dialogue. You must realize by now that your refusal to deal with scripture just shows how shallow your position is.
     
  13. AustinC

    AustinC Well-Known Member

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    My comprehension is quite good. This is precisely why I contend against your humanist theology that denies the Supremacy of God over your life.
     
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  14. Silverhair

    Silverhair Well-Known Member

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    You just deny scripture so as to support your calvinism.
     
  15. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    Who would know? Stating you disagree rather than presenting answers to the specific questions is not presenting an alternate view.
     
  16. AustinC

    AustinC Well-Known Member

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    Keep falling on your imaginary calvin. No one brings it up except you. It's your fantasy to justify your humanist theology.
     
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  17. Silverhair

    Silverhair Well-Known Member

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    Well then deal with the scripture instead of running away from it. You have yet to respond to any of the text that I have given you.
     
  18. AustinC

    AustinC Well-Known Member

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    Sigh, I have already provided comment for every prooftext you have ever used. Your memory is incredibly short and I won't waste my text on what has already been done.
    We are at an impasse. You want to be over God and I want to be under God's authority.
     
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  19. Silverhair

    Silverhair Well-Known Member

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    Sigh, you come up with the same response whenever you do not want to deal with scripture. These are not prooftexts they are scripture but you must not know that. Your responses just show how little you do read or understand.

    I do agree we are at an impasse, I post scripture and you ignore it. You want people to accept your calvinist view but most on here reject it as does most of Christianity. Funny, you say I want to be over God when it is the calvinist that misreads scripture, changes the meaning of words in the text and hold to contradictory ideas in your confessions. Need I go no pointing out the errors in your theology.

    Think through your theology to the logical end if you are able. You will see that it does not fit with scripture. I do wish you the best Austin, and may God open your eyes to the truth.
     
  20. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    NASB
    Therefore, having been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ,

    The phrase for study in this verse is "justified by faith." Now the Greek word translated "justified" is also translated by some versions as "declared righteous." And the word certainly has both meanings within its semantic range. However if God is causing the righteousness, the word should be translated as made righteous or justified, rather than "declared righteous." A perusal of the places where "declared righteous" is intended are the verses where individuals declare themselves righteous. See Luke 7:29, 10:29 and 16:15.

    The "by" in our phrase translates the Greek preposition "ek" which means (positionally) out of, and metaphorically based upon. Thus we are justified based on faith. Now is that any faith or only faith in Christ as credited by God? As credited by God. See Romans 4:23-25.

    NASB
    Therefore, having been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ,

    One of the things I was taught as part of learning how to study scripture was to ask, "What is the therefore therefore?"

    The Greek word, "oun" G3767 when used as a conjunction ties what has been presented to its conclusion, thus could also be translated as "accordingly or consequently." The idea is you need to look at the prior verses to see what is being concluded.
    Here a chapter break (end of chapter 4, start of chapter 5) also artificially breaks up the passage. Romans 4:23-25 is thus summarized by Romans 5:1.

    Romans 4:23- 5:1
    Now not for his sake only was it written that it was credited to him,
    but for our sake also, to whom it [righteousness] will be credited, to us who believe in Him who raised Jesus our Lord from the dead,
    He who was delivered over because of our wrongdoings, and was raised because of our justification.
    Therefore, having been justified on the basis of faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ,
     
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