Featured No such thing as "free will"

An Episode of Possibilities
(1) Saul sets his heart against David and decides to put him to death (1 Samuel 20:30-33).
(2) Ahimelech feeds and arms David (21:1-6)
(3) Saul has the priest Ahimelech and household killed with only one son escaping (22:16-20)
(4) David gathers a troupe of 400 discontents (22:2)
(5) David and his men hole up in Keilah (23:6)
(6) Saul hears of it and prepares to “go down to Keilah to besiege David and his men” (23:7-8)
(7) David enquires of the Lord,(23:10-13 NASB)

11Will the citizens of Keilah hand me over to him? Will Saul come down just as Your servant has heard? Lord God of Israel, please, tell Your servant.”
And the Lord said, “He will come down.”

12Then David said, “Will the citizens of Keilah hand me and my men over to Saul?”
And the Lord said, “They will hand you over.”

13Then David and his men, about six hundred, rose up and departed from Keilah, and they went wherever they could go. When it was reported to Saul that David had escaped from Keilah, he gave up the pursuit.​

So Saul doesn’t go down to Keilah and the people of Keilah never hand David over.

It appears that David's choices changed future events.

Rob

 

Uggh...
"not under compulsion" means "free to choose" or "free will"

Rob

 

Let me get this straight. The entire argument for God not having full authority in the actions of His creation (human free will) is being based upon the second half of one sentence? How ludicrous!
Philemon 1:13-16
I would have been glad to keep him with me, in order that he might serve me on your behalf during my imprisonment for the gospel, but I preferred to do nothing without your consent in order that your goodness might not be by compulsion but of your own accord. For this perhaps is why he was parted from you for a while, that you might have him back forever, no longer as a bondservant but more than a bondservant, as a beloved brother—especially to me, but how much more to you, both in the flesh and in the Lord.

 

Amazing isn’t it?

Van worships a God who is not in control of His own creation!

 

Better that David's choices were the means by which God chose to keep His Covenant with David.
This is where the dependent sovereign concept has a voice.

 

If a man can choose to obey God, based upon intellect and reason and conscience, he can choose to disobey God as well. This requires a will. God did not in the first 4000 years of human history require anyone to believe in the death burial and resurrection of Jesus Christ, yet the shedding of Christ's blood and his dying for sinners on the cross is the only way for anyone who has ever lived at any time to receive forgiveness of his sins. Therefore God, knowing that he himself would come into the world for the purpose of saving the world, would justify anyone who would believe the revelation he gave them and he would impute their believing for righteousness until the blood of Christ would wash away their sins. They were not reconciled unto God before Christ died and rose again and therefore could not enter into his presence, but they were justified. The judge of all the earth did right by declaring those who believed him, God, not guilty. This is a glorious truth from God, Consider these passages.

Rom 2:12 For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law; 13 (For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.

14 For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves: 15 Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another. 16 In the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel.

The next verses give the logic of these statements above. Check them out.

17 Behold, thou art called a Jew, and restest in the law, and makest thy boast of God, 18 And knowest his will, and approvest the things that are more excellent, being instructed out of the law; 19 And art confident that thou thyself art a guide of the blind, a light of them which are in darkness, 20 An instructor of the foolish, a teacher of babes, which hast the form of knowledge and of the truth in the law.
21 Thou therefore which teachest another, teachest thou not thyself? thou that preachest a man should not steal, dost thou steal?
22 Thou that sayest a man should not commit adultery, dost thou commit adultery? thou that abhorrest idols, dost thou commit sacrilege?
23 Thou that makest thy boast of the law, through breaking the law dishonourest thou God?
24 For the name of God is blasphemed among the Gentiles through you, as it is written.
25 For circumcision verily profiteth, if thou keep the law: but if thou be a breaker of the law, thy circumcision is made uncircumcision.
26 Therefore if the uncircumcision keep the righteousness of the law, shall not his uncircumcision be counted for circumcision?
27 And shall not uncircumcision which is by nature, if it fulfil the law, judge thee, who by the letter and circumcision dost transgress the law?

The point is, before Jesus came all men were judged according to whether they walked in the light they were given by God. The gentiles were judged by the "God consciousness" they were given according to verses 14-16 above. The evidence of their faith was their willingness to follow their conscience and do right. The Jews, OTOH, had the written law of God spelled out and they had much more responsibility because of it. God revealed himself to them through the Mosaic law and through his interaction with them as his own people. The gentiles had two witnesses from God, their conscience and the creation. In Psa 19 and Ro 1 God says the creation speaks to the whole world in words they can understand.

So what has all this to do with free will? The answer is that God judges men and condemns them because of acts they do in the body that they know are wrong to do. James says that "if a man keeps the whole law and offends in one point he is guilty of all." The list of sins in Rom 1 are all acts done in the body. They are not thoughts, they are deeds. It takes free will to make a choice between doing good and doing evil, to follow ones conscience or to violate it, to obey the commandments of God or to disobey. If one can choose good, it is logical thinking that he can likewise choose to do evil. Else God could not judge him for doing wrong.

This doctrine that is being put out that men do not have free will is one of the doctrines of devils that has been presented to the body of Christ in the last days, going all the way back to about 1500 AD. It is a ridiculous doctrine. It is evil and wicked.

At the great white throne, when God judges all unsaved men and casts them into the lake of fire forever, notice what he is going to judge them for.

11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.
12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.
14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.

What are some of their works?
Re 21:8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

If these men at the great white throne had been justified (giving a not guilty verdict) by believing what God said to them by whatever means he spoke to them, and then doing what he said, they would not be condemned by their works at this judgement. Following is a description of those who are not going to heaven.

1Co 6:9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,
10 Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.
11 And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.

All the above are acts done in the body. There is no salvation without repentance and it takes a free will to repent. After men repent they no longer do these things. The full gospel is repentance toward God (who is the one offended by these deeds) and faith toward Jesus Christ (who paid the penalty before God in our place, which is death).

It is important to state here that God, after the cross and resurrection of Jesus Christ, is not justifying any man until and unless they believe the gospel of Jesus Christ because now Christ is our justification, and works has nothing to do with it. Here is what he says to the world.

Acts 17:24 God that made the world and all things therein, seeing that he is Lord of heaven and earth, dwelleth not in temples made with hands;
25 Neither is worshipped with men’s hands, as though he needed any thing, seeing he giveth to all life, and breath, and all things;
26 And hath made of one blood all nations of men for to dwell on all the face of the earth, and hath determined the times before appointed, and the bounds of their habitation;
27 That they should seek the Lord, if haply they might feel after him, and find him, though he be not far from every one of us:
28 For in him we live, and move, and have our being; as certain also of your own poets have said, For we are also his offspring.
29 Forasmuch then as we are the offspring of God, we ought not to think that the Godhead is like unto gold, or silver, or stone, graven by art and man’s device.
30 And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent:
31 Because he hath appointed a day, in the which he will judge the world in righteousness by that man whom he hath ordained; whereof he hath given assurance unto all men, in that he hath raised him from the dead.

Men can repent or they can refuse to repent because they have free will. Otherwise God would not have commanded it.


This is some of my thoughts on the subject of free will.

 

Sure you want to use that argument Austin? You base your being chosen in Christ before the foundation of the world on the first part of one verse. To quote you "How ludicrous!"
Eph 1:4 just as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world,

 

You realize I provided a 6 page document of verses for you. Would you like me to share that again so you grasp the Sovereign choice of God across the entire Bible? Sure you would. Here it is.

 

You still did not respond to the verses that I gave you. Interesting list though. Just looked at a few of them and I don't think they are really going to help you much.

 

did you know when Jesus says in places like Luke 5:32, "I have not come to call the righteous but sinners to repentance", that the Greek verb καλέω which is translated CALL, also is used for INVITED? This means that the Gospel Message is an INVITATION, as seen from the Parable of the Wedding Feast. An INVITATION is something that can be ACCEPTED or REJECTED, as also seen in this Parable, where those who were originally INVITED, REFUSED to come, which means they CHOOSE to do so! This is known as FREE WILL!

 

The Bible says that everyone who is simply invited will reject the invitation. By nature humans are in open rebellion against God.

If your mortal enemy invites you to live under His supreme rule, you will NEVER willingly submit under that rule. This is precisely how the unredeemed respond to such an invitation.

However, all who were created as sheep whose shepherd is Jesus will hear his voice and follow their shepherd.

Honestly, sbw, you look for the most minute excuse to demand your own authority to rule over Jesus authority. The scripture is so very clear that Jesus is supreme and all whom the Father gives him come to him and he will lose not even one.

 

Silverhair, I have, in many other threads, responded to your prooftext s and shown you why your interpretation is wrong. You know this, yet you persist in pushing the same error everytime and you keep thinking your error will produce a positive result. That is your insanity.

 

You see the foolishness spawned by noncalvinism?

But Christ, Who said He only does what He sees the Father do:

Where is it that Jesus took a risk?

What utter, carnal nonsense!

 

Romans 9:18 Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will have mercy, and whom he will he hardeneth.

 

Aaron you never fail to amuse. Your lack of comprehension skills is remarkable.
Did God take a risk in giving man a free will, sure, we could have all said no to the offer of salvation but that bit of logic just flew right over your head.

Try reading it again, this time without the calvinist bias. You might actually learn something. As long as you keep looking at the world through your calvinist glasses you will continue to miss most of the truths in the bible.

 

You have something in common with your Mormon relatives, and all cults, really.

Free will.

Extolling the good in man and detracting from the determinate counsel and foreknowledge of God, making Him into an image like unto man, and four-footed beasts, and creeping things.