The Gospel in Six Minutes

[37818]

Incorrect. The unsaved are not to try to figure out whether they are of the elect or not. They are to submit to the righteousness of God.

Because that is what you believe? The yet unsaved must some how come to a reason to believe. What reason should any not yet believers believe any gospel claim? And furthermore believe Christ died for them, if the teaching is, He did not die for everyone? There would be zero reason.

 

[KenH]

Because that is what you believe? The yet unsaved must some how come to a reason to believe. What reason should any not yet believers believe any gospel claim? And furthermore believe Christ died for them, if the teaching is He did not die for everyone? Zero reason.

Incorrect. Sounds like the kind of excuse a worldling would use. Submit to God's righteousness! Period! I don't think that on the Day of Judgment of unbelievers that they will get anywhere with saying to God, "I wasn't sure if I was one of the elect and that is why I didn't believe."

 

[37818]

Submit to God's righteousness!

Why would a worldy person even considering such a thing? By what reasons?

 

[KenH]

Because that is what you believe? The yet unsaved must some how come to a reason to believe. What reason should any not yet believers believe any gospel claim? And furthermore believe Christ died for them, if the teaching is, He did not die for everyone? There would be zero reason.

Of course, what you state could be a delusion that God sends them.

2 Thessalonians 2:11-12 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: that they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

 

[KenH]

Why would a worldy person even considering such a thing? By what reasons?

Surely in your life you have seen the lengths that people will go to in making excuses for themselves. Just read in Genesis what Adam and Eve did when God confronted them with their sin.

Genesis 3:11-13 And he said, Who told thee that thou wast naked? Hast thou eaten of the tree, whereof I commanded thee that thou shouldest not eat? And the man said, The woman whom thou gavest to be with me, she gave me of the tree, and I did eat. And the LORD God said unto the woman, What is this that thou hast done? And the woman said, The serpent beguiled me, and I did eat.

 

[37818]

Of course, what you state could be a delusion that God sends them.

2 Thessalonians 2:11-12 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: that they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

Good thing for me, I heard the truth to believe in my Lord Jesus Christ who died and rose from the dead that I might know God and His forgiveness.

 

[atpollard]

Calvinism takes its name from John Calvin.

"Calvinism" was given its name by the powerful Lutheran State Church ... in an effort to smear the Reformers in EXACTLY the same way that you are: by implying that their exegesis of scripture is the teaching of a man rather than the word of God (which is ironic for a denomination that venerates the "Book of Concord" because it was written by Martin Luther, after whom the Lutheran Church is named).

 

[SavedByGrace]

"Calvinism" was given its name by the powerful Lutheran State Church ... in an effort to smear the Reformers in EXACTLY the same way that you are: by implying that their exegesis of scripture is the teaching of a man rather than the word of God (which is ironic for a denomination that venerates the "Book of Concord" because it was written by Martin Luther, after whom the Lutheran Church is named).

IF "Calvinism" is not from the teachings of John Calvin, then it is DECEIVING to say "5 point of Calvinism", when Calvin himself taught that Jesus died for the ENTIRE HUMAN RACE, which means the L point, is NOT Calvin!

 

[Mathetes66]

Great quote from John Calvin himself, Saved By Grace! It clearly shows that those who call themselves Calvinists are not following John Calvin on his teaching about John 3:16! No better source could be found. Thanks for sharing that!

 

[Mathetes66]

Just for your information Atpollard, this is what Martin Luther said (and I quote) when he found out people were trying to make a Lutheran church after his name: "Dirty maggot fodder that I am that any man should call the church of Jesus Christ by my name. For we have only one Head, even Christ." Then he quotes I Cor 1:10-13:

Now I plead with you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that you all speak the same thing & that there be no divisions among you, but that you be perfectly joined together in the same mind & in the same judgment. 11For it has been declared to me concerning you, my brethren, by those of Chloe’s household, that there are contentions (divisions) among you. 12Now I say this, that each of you says, “I am of Paul,” or “I am of Apollos,” or “I am of Cephas,” or “I am of Christ.” 13Is Christ divided? Was Paul crucified for you? Or were you baptized in the name of Paul?

 

[KenH]

Great quote from John Calvin himself, Saved By Grace! It clearly shows that those who call themselves Calvinists are not following John Calvin on his teaching about John 3:16! No better source could be found. Thanks for sharing that!

Then I hope you and your fellow opponents of the doctrines of God's grace will be consistent and stop calling those of us who espouse the gospel of the grace of God in Christ Jesus by the moniker, "Calvinists".

 

[Mathetes66]

Your false charge & accusation that we are opponents of the doctrines of God's grace falls down flat. I hope you & your fellow 'sovereign grace' advocates stop saying we are opposed to the biblical doctrine of the grace of God. And if you choose not to be called a Calvinist, then so be it. I have no problem with not calling you a Calvinist. We should be calling ourselves Christians, followers of Christ, IF that is true of you & me.

 

[atpollard]

IF "Calvinism" is not from the teachings of John Calvin, then it is DECEIVING to say "5 point of Calvinism", when Calvin himself taught that Jesus died for the ENTIRE HUMAN RACE, which means the L point, is NOT Calvin!

Will you entertain the possibility that the meaning and use of words can change over 500 years. John Calvin died in 1564 and “TULIP” first appeared in a lecture by Cleland McAfee around 1905 and a Presbyterian newspaper in 1913. So the modern 5 points are quite modern in their current form. The truths contained within them can be traced back to the Synod of Dort (which itself merely quoted those specific truths from the long established 66 books of Scripture in response to a 16th century “error” being advocated.)

Calvin is irrelevant to so-called “Calvinism” (which should be obvious from the absence of any Church founded by John Calvin.). Calvin is doubly irrelevant to Particular Baptists, since we are not even properly “Reformed” (rejecting things like Infant Baptism that mark churches descended directly from the Reformation like the Presbyterians). We merely agree with the reformers and accept Biblical soteriology (Ephesians 2:1-10 … God saves men without first asking permission).

 

[SavedByGrace]

We merely agree with the reformers and accept Biblical soteriology (Ephesians 2:1-10 … God saves men without first asking permission

so when the Lord Jesus Christ, Who is Almighty God, in the Days of His Flesh on earth, proclaims, at the start of His Ministry, "and saying, “The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand; REPENT and BELIEVE in the gospel.” (Mark 1:15), He is wrong? Likewise, at the end of His Ministry, Commands, "and that REPENTANCE for forgiveness of sins would be proclaimed in His name to all the nations, beginning from Jerusalem" (Luke 24:47), He is also wrong? And, the Chief Apostle, Peter, at the end of his First Sermon, responds to those who heard him, and said, "what shall we DO?" (Acts 2:37), by saying, "Peter said to them, “REPENT, and each of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins; and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit" (v38), he is also wrong? And, the Apostle to the Gentiles, Paul, was also wrong, when he says, "For godly sorrow produces repentance leading to salvation, not to be regretted; but the sorrow of the world produces death" (2 Corinthians 7:10). And we are to believe that "Reformed and Particular" theology is right? This is the highest ARROGANCE that I have seen, and complete RUBBISH!

 

[SavedByGrace]

fellow opponents of the doctrines of God's grace

what UTTER RUBBISH!!!

 

[KenH]

so when the Lord Jesus Christ, Who is Almighty God, in the Days of His Flesh on earth, proclaims, at the start of His Ministry, "and saying, “The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand; REPENT and BELIEVE in the gospel.” (Mark 1:15), He is wrong? Likewise, at the end of His Ministry, Commands, "and that REPENTANCE for forgiveness of sins would be proclaimed in His name to all the nations, beginning from Jerusalem" (Luke 24:47), He is also wrong? And, the Chief Apostle, Peter, at the end of his First Sermon, responds to those who heard him, and said, "what shall we DO?" (Acts 2:37), by saying, "Peter said to them, “REPENT, and each of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins; and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit" (v38), he is also wrong? And, the Apostle to the Gentiles, Paul, was also wrong, when he says, "For godly sorrow produces repentance leading to salvation, not to be regretted; but the sorrow of the world produces death" (2 Corinthians 7:10). And we are to believe that "Reformed and Particular" theology is right? This is the highest ARROGANCE that I have seen, and complete RUBBISH!

The issue is not whether some people will have faith and repent of their dead works. The issue is whether or not a person can, through his fallen, depraved nature, do it and thus share credit for at least a part of his salvation; or is salvation all of God without human effort and works. The Bible teaches that salvation is all of God(Jonah 2:9) and that God will not share His glory with another, and that includes His creatures in the matter of their salvation - Isaiah 42:8 I am the LORD: that is my name: and my glory will I not give to another, neither my praise to graven images.

The idea that fallen creatures can contribute the least little bit to their salvation is pure RUBBISH!

 

[SavedByGrace]

The issue is not whether some people will have faith and repent of their dead works. The issue is whether or not a person can, through his fallen, depraved nature, do it and thus share credit for at least a part of his salvation; or is salvation all of God without human effort and works. The Bible teaches that salvation is all of God(Jonah 2:9) and that God will not share His glory with another, and that includes His creatures in the matter of their salvation - Isaiah 42:8 I am the LORD: that is my name: and my glory will I not give to another, neither my praise to graven images.

The idea that fallen creatures can contribute the least little bit to their salvation is pure RUBBISH!

here is a thread I did last year on the way of salvation, The Bible Way of Salvation

 

[KenH]

here is a thread I did last year on the way of salvation, The Bible Way of Salvation

Right near the beginning you state, "Salvation is a free Gift from God to the human race."

Now if you mean by "human race", God's elect whom He chose before the world began, I would agree with your statement.

If you mean every human being that ever lived, then we are in opposition as that is not what the Bible teaches - we don't have the same starting point as to what happened before the earth was even created.

 

[SavedByGrace]

Right near the beginning you state, "Salvation is a free Gift from God to the human race." Now if you mean by "human race", God's elect whom He chose before the world began, I would agree with your statement. If you mean every human being that ever lived, then we are in opposition as that is not what the Bible teaches.

I have said this many times on BB, John 3:16-18 is very clear, that God has a Saving Love for the entire human race. there is no other way to understand this passage, unless you were to twist its meaning.

 

[KenH]

I have said this many times on BB, John 3:16-18 is very clear, that God has a Saving Love for the entire human race. there is no other way to understand this passage, unless you were to twist its meaning.

Wrong! Pure sentimental, creature-centered RUBBISH!

You will not lead me away from the LORD with your man-centered false teaching.