Featured A Penal Substitution Theory Interpretation

Passage is referring to ONLY physical death via capital punishment for ones own sins under thew OT law, and has NOTHING to do with what Jesus experienced at Calvary!

 

refers to Capital physical death for transgressing law of God in the OT!

 

Oh boy! Another Penal Substitution thread. Just what we need

So do you not believe that God justifies the ungodly? I thought you said you did.

'Yet it pleased the LORD to bruise Him; He has put Him to grief' (Isaiah 53:10). It took us a long time to drag out of you that this verse is in the Bible, but there it is, proud and unapologetic. That it was Yahweh's good pleasure to bruise, or crush, the sinless Son is beyond argument.

'God set Him forth as a propitiation' - that is, a sacrifice that turns away wrath. He did indeed do it to show forth His righteousness, firstly in passing over the sins previously committed (Romans 3:25), and secondly to demonstrate His righteousness at the present time.

God obviously did not consider them an abomination, because He certainly crushed the sinless Son and He certainly justifies the ungodly.(Romans 4:5). What perhaps needs to be discussed is why He does not consider them an abomination. I offer three reasons:
1. It is not some random righteous bloke (if there were such a one) whom God has punished against His will. It is actually God Himself in the Person of His Son who has willingly given Himself to redeem chosen sinners (Acts of the Apostles 20:28b).
2. God did not condemn the righteous. The resurrection was the vindication of Christ (Romans 1:4), and 'Therefore God also has highly exalted Him and given Him the name that is above every name........etc.' (Philippians 2:9ff.
3. I cannot help noticing that you have made no attempt whatsoever to answer my points about Christ being made Mediator and Surety of the New Covenant. Just to remind you of it, I will re-post it presently.

 

This is a re-posting of my post #105 in the 'Penal Substitution' thread.


And so we read, 'And the LORD has laid on Him the iniquity of us all.' And again, 'Who Himself bore our sins in His own body on the tree, that we, having died to sins, might live for righteousness - by whose stripes you were healed.' How could the Lord Jesus bear our sins in His own body unless they were transferred to Him?

So why is this allowable? Partly because of two offices held by the Lord Jesus.
In the Scriptures we have the concept of the mediator, one who might fill up the gap between the outraged holiness of God and rebellious man (Isaiah 59:2). Job complained, “For He is not a man, as I am, that I should answer Him, and that we should go to court together. Nor is there any mediator between us who may lay his hand on us both.” But mediation requires a satisfaction to be made to the offended party. We see this is the book of Philemon. Here we have an offended party, Philemon, whose servant has run away from him, perhaps stealing some goods as he went; an offending party, Onesimus, and Paul who is attempting to mediate between them. Onesimus needs to return to his master, but fears the sanctions that may be imposed upon him if he does so. Paul takes these sanctions upon himself: ‘But if he has wronged you or owes anything, put that on my account. I, Paul, am writing with my own hand. I will repay…..’ (Philemon 18-19). Whatever is wanting to propitiate Philemon’s anger against his servant and to effect reconciliation, Paul the mediator willingly agrees to provide. He does not say, "I can't do that; God does not allow punishment to be transferred from the unrighteous to the righteous. In the same way, the Lord Jesus has become a Mediator between men and God (1 Timothy 2:5; Hebrews 8:6).

In 2 Corinthians 5:19, we learn that God does not impute trespasses against His people; in Christ; He has reconciled the world [believing Jew and Gentile alike] to Himself. How has He done this? Through the Mediator Jesus Christ. ‘For He made Him who knew no sin to be sin for us….’ (v.21). The Lord Jesus has taken our sins upon Himself and made satisfaction to God for them. Therefore the message of reconciliation can be preached to all.

A similar concept is that of a surety. This is someone who guarantees the debts of a friend and must pay them in full if the friend defaults. There are several warnings in the Book of Proverbs against becoming a surety (Proverbs 6:1-5; 11:15; 17:18), since one is making the debts of one’s friend effectively one’s own, yet we read in Hebrews 7:22, ‘By so much more Jesus has become a surety of a better covenant.’
Christ is specifically designated in Scripture as ‘the last Adam’ (1 Corinthians 15:45) and we are told that the first Adam was a ‘type [or ‘figure’] of Him who was to come’ (Romans 5:14). ‘For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ all shall be made alive’ (1 Corinthians 15:22). All those in Adam perish in their sins; all those in Christ are united to Him in His perfect righteousness.

Who are those ‘in Christ’? Those He came to save; those who were given to Him by the Father before time began. “Christ came not to strangers but to ‘brethren (Hebrews 2:11-13). He came here not to procure a people for Himself, but to secure a people already His” (A.W. Pink). There are many supporting texts for this, e.g. Matthew 1:21; John 6:39; 10:27-29; 17:2, 6; Ephesians 1:4. Christ is united federally to His people. They are ‘chosen in Christ’ (Ephesians 1:4), ‘Created in Christ’ (Ephesians 2:10); ‘circumcised in Him’ (Colossians 2:11) and ‘made the righteousness of God in Him (2 Corinthians 5:21). But as Surety, the Lord Jesus must also pay the debt of His people, and if they are to be freed from their debt, He must pay the very last penny (Matthew 5:26).

Neither the concept of mediator nor that of surety is repudiated in Scripture. Therefore it is legitimate for our Lord to suffer and die for guilty sinners. 'For when we were still without strength, in due time Christ died for the ungodly.'

 

That passage refers to one getting killed as a capital response to sins, nothing to do with the spiritual aspect of the death of Christ as our sin bearer!

 

In order to be Holy, God must judged and punish all sins!

 

If one refuses to have our sins imputed to Jesus, then they cannot have His righteousness imputed to us either!

 

Isaiah 53:10, ". . . Yet it pleased the LORD to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, . . ." Ezekiel 18:20, ". . . The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him. . . ."

 

An interesting insight. Are we understanding this?

The differences between an infinitely good God and what God cannot permit any sinful man to do.

 

What is Matthew 25:41 for?