1. Welcome to Baptist Board, a friendly forum to discuss the Baptist Faith in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to all the features that our community has to offer.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

Featured A Penal Substitution Theory Interpretation

Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by JonC, Jun 8, 2022.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. AustinC

    AustinC Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 29, 2020
    Messages:
    10,911
    Likes Received:
    1,458
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Faith is caused by truth claims?

    Let's break that down.

    1) Jesus is the way, the truth, and the life.
    2) Jesus is God.
    Therefore
    3) God causes one to have faith.

    This faith comes after God has made a person alive with Christ (while we were still dead).

    You really need to spend time reading and studying these passages rather than making things up.

    Dead people don't have faith in a God whom they don't think they need. Your idea that all people are born with innate faith is just a fantasy of your own making.
     
  2. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 23, 2018
    Messages:
    17,464
    Likes Received:
    1,321
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Mixing truth with error never makes the error true
    John 17:17, ". . . Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth. . . ." Romans 10:17, ". . . So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God. . . ."

    Romans 10:13-15 teaches belief precedes salvation.
     
  3. AustinC

    AustinC Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 29, 2020
    Messages:
    10,911
    Likes Received:
    1,458
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Then stop your error. I quoted the full section of Romans 10 so you could see your error, yet here you are still presenting an error that you cling to.
    If you actually read the whole, you will see your error.
    Romans 10:6-21

    But the righteousness based on faith says, “Do not say in your heart, ‘Who will ascend into heaven?’” (that is, to bring Christ down) “or ‘Who will descend into the abyss?’” (that is, to bring Christ up from the dead). But what does it say? “The word is near you, in your mouth and in your heart” (that is, the word of faith that we proclaim); because, if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. For with the heart one believes and is justified, and with the mouth one confesses and is saved. For the Scripture says, “Everyone who believes in him will not be put to shame.” For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek; for the same Lord is Lord of all, bestowing his riches on all who call on him. For “everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.” How then will they call on him in whom they have not believed? And how are they to believe in him of whom they have never heard? And how are they to hear without someone preaching? And how are they to preach unless they are sent? As it is written, “How beautiful are the feet of those who preach the good news!” But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Isaiah says, “Lord, who has believed what he has heard from us?” So faith comes from hearing, and hearing through the word of Christ. But I ask, have they not heard? Indeed they have, for “Their voice has gone out to all the earth, and their words to the ends of the world.” But I ask, did Israel not understand? First Moses says, “I will make you jealous of those who are not a nation; with a foolish nation I will make you angry.” Then Isaiah is so bold as to say, “I have been found by those who did not seek me; I have shown myself to those who did not ask for me.” But of Israel he says, “All day long I have held out my hands to a disobedient and contrary people.”

    It is right in front of your eyes. Dead men don't believe until God calls their name. Then they follow the shepherd of their souls.

    May God remove the scales in front of your eyes.
     
  4. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 23, 2018
    Messages:
    17,464
    Likes Received:
    1,321
    Faith:
    Baptist
    What error? Belief precedes salvation.
     
  5. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 23, 2018
    Messages:
    17,464
    Likes Received:
    1,321
    Faith:
    Baptist
    The word of God that that faith, verse 17, came by, ". . . sound went into all the earth, and their words unto the ends of the world.". Per Psalms 19:4.
     
  6. Martin Marprelate

    Martin Marprelate Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Dec 18, 2010
    Messages:
    8,855
    Likes Received:
    2,115
    Faith:
    Baptist
     
  7. AustinC

    AustinC Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 29, 2020
    Messages:
    10,911
    Likes Received:
    1,458
    Faith:
    Baptist
    If God spoke to each person and said " come forth" then everyone would be saved.
    You are between a rock and a hard place here. Either God universally saves everyone, or human will is greater and more supreme than God's will. You have to accept one or the other to make your theology be consistent without contradiction.

    Otherwise, you have to admit that God chooses particular people and has mercy on whom he wills. (Romans 9)
     
  8. AustinC

    AustinC Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 29, 2020
    Messages:
    10,911
    Likes Received:
    1,458
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Dead men believe?

    That is not taught in the Bible.
     
  9. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 23, 2018
    Messages:
    17,464
    Likes Received:
    1,321
    Faith:
    Baptist
    You have a false view of God on this matter.
     
  10. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 23, 2018
    Messages:
    17,464
    Likes Received:
    1,321
    Faith:
    Baptist
    An irrational rant.
    Dead people don't breathe or eat.
     
  11. JonC

    JonC Moderator
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2001
    Messages:
    34,629
    Likes Received:
    3,698
    Faith:
    Baptist
    The Lord Jesus the Propitiation for the sins of the world because it is in Him that man is reborn (or recreated, born of the Spirit, cleansed) and therefore escape the wrath to come. Christ died for our sins. He is sinless but He "shared in our infirmity". The wages of sin is death. He experienced those wages, however they were earned by us, not Him. The Cross was God reconciling man to Himself, and it is on this basis that we plead with men to be reconciled to God. God lay our iniquity upon Him in the sense that He became like us in every way, to include suffering under sin...but this was OUR sin, not His own. Another way of saying this is that He became a curse for us. Nobody cursed Him, but man considered Him accursed by God (and God vindicated Him against the error).
     
  12. Salty

    Salty 20,000 Posts Club
    Administrator

    Joined:
    Apr 8, 2003
    Messages:
    38,982
    Likes Received:
    2,615
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Six hour warning
    This thread will be closed no sooner than 6 am EDT (Mon) / 3 AM PDT (Mon)
     
  13. Martin Marprelate

    Martin Marprelate Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Dec 18, 2010
    Messages:
    8,855
    Likes Received:
    2,115
    Faith:
    Baptist
    In view of the thread closing, I will open a new one to respond to your post.
     
  14. Salty

    Salty 20,000 Posts Club
    Administrator

    Joined:
    Apr 8, 2003
    Messages:
    38,982
    Likes Received:
    2,615
    Faith:
    Baptist
    This thread is closed
     
    • Winner Winner x 1
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
Loading...