1 Corinthians 6:16-17

[Van]

In these two verses a passive verb is translated as if the person is doing the action, in a little less than one third of the English Translations on Biblegateway. And the list includes such well regarded versions as the LEB and NASB. However the NET does not engage in the grammatical transformation.

The question for study is why do so many translations alter the passive grammar and translate the word as meaning joins himself.

Does anyone know the answer?

If we join ourselves with Christ, then why does 1 Corinthians 1:30 say God puts us into Christ? The questionable translation choice also suggests that we save ourselves by joining ourselves with Christ.

 

[Van]

LEB
But the one who joins himself to the Lord is one spirit with him.

NASB
But the one who joins himself to the Lord is one spirit with Him.

NET
But the one united with the Lord is one spirit with him.

NKJV
But he who is joined to the Lord is one spirit with Him.

And here is a snippet from Thayer's Lexicon concerning the meaning of kollaō (G2853):

"in the N. T. only the passive is found, with reflexive force, to join oneself to, cleave to;"​

 

[Van]

Some commentaries suggest the same idea is found in the Old Testament, such as in Jeremiah 13:11; Deuteronomy 10:20; Deuteronomy 11:22; and 2 Kings 18:6.

However these OT references are talking about our action to follow and adhere to the commands of God, rather than being spiritually joined to Christ.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Its a passive verb. It is not something that the subject is actively doing. it is an action that is undergoing or recieving the action. it is acted on them

This is God who is actively joining us together with him.

 

[Marooncat79]

Hehehehe

 

[The Archangel]

In these two verses a passive verb is translated...

Point of information: κολλώμενος is not a verb; it is a participle.

The Archangel

 

[Van]

Point of information: κολλώμενος is not a verb; it is a participle.

The Archangel

Thanks for nothing, I wanted to know why a passive verb was translated as a active verb.

Here is how the word is parsed: "Verb - Present Passive Participle - Nominative Singular Masculine

"A participle is a word that has both the properties of a verb and a noun. In English, participles are typically formed by adding ing to the stem of a verb (for example: eating)

 

[The Archangel]

Thanks for nothing, I wanted to know why a passive verb was translated as a active verb.

Here is how the word is parsed: "Verb - Present Passive Participle - Nominative Singular Masculine

"A participle is a word that has both the properties of a verb and a noun. In English, participles are typically formed by adding ing to the stem of a verb (for example: eating)

That is not how it is parsed. It is not a verb. Having properties of a verb and a noun, it is neither a verb nor a noun. Participles are their own animals.

The Archangel

 

[Van]

That is not how it is parsed. It is not a verb. Having properties of a verb and a noun, it is neither a verb nor a noun. Participles are their own animals.

The Archangel

Still no answer to the question. Passive versus active. Do humans join themselves to Christ, or does God put them into Christ spiritually? Now I know you claim the action of being joined is not a verb, but I did not find any support for that claim.

 

[The Archangel]

Still no answer to the question. Passive versus active. Do humans join themselves to Christ, or does God put them into Christ spiritually? Now I know you claim the action of being joined is not a verb, but I did not find any support for that claim.

My suspicion is that it's related to the main verb, which is not κολλώμενος (because it's a participle). The translation "is joined" as in the ESV and the NKJV (as you posted) is proper of the passive participle. Why the NASB gives it as a middle, I do not know. But it matters little to what Paul is getting at in this particular passage.

The Archangel

 

[Van]

My suspicion is that it's related to the main verb, which is not κολλώμενος (because it's a participle). The translation "is joined" as in the ESV and the NKJV (as you posted) is proper of the passive participle. Why the NASB gives it as a middle, I do not know. But it matters little to what Paul is getting at in this particular passage.

The Archangel

Thanks, so "is joined" translates the Greek grammar correctly. And Joined himself changes the "participle" to active or middle voice. Since humans do not join themselves to Christ, I think the correct translation matters a whole lot.

 

[The Archangel]

Thanks, so "is joined" translates the Greek grammar correctly. And Joined himself changes the "participle" to active or middle voice. Since humans do not join themselves to Christ, I think the correct translation matters a whole lot.

Paul likely uses the same passive participle to maintain the parallel thought. So... context. That's why it doesn't matter as much as you think it does.

The Archangel

 

[Van]

Paul likely uses the same passive participle to maintain the parallel thought. So... context. That's why it doesn't matter as much as you think it does.

The Archangel

I will leave reading Paul's mind to you, and stick with what Paul actually said "But he who is joined..." After all, that is in agreement with more than 40 of the English translations on Biblegateway.

 

[The Archangel]

I will leave reading Paul's mind to you, and stick with what Paul actually said "But he who is joined..." After all, that is in agreement with more than 40 of the English translations on Biblegateway.

Noticing established patterns of writing and thought is hardly "mind reading."

The Archangel

 

[Van]

Noticing established patterns of writing and thought is hardly "mind reading."

The Archangel

Since a vast number of published translators think differently, why are you so smart as to see "established patterns of writing and thoughts."

 

[Van]

1 Corinthians 6:17 (interpretive translation)
Yet the one being joined to the Lord is united with His Spirit. We are in His Spirit and His Spirit is in us.

 

[The Archangel]

Since a vast number of published translators think differently, why are you so smart as to see "established patterns of writing and thoughts."

"A vast number?" Clearly, that's not all. There is a reason for the "thinking differently."

The Archangel

 

[Van]

1 Corinthians 6:17 (interpretive translation)
Yet the one being joined to the Lord is united with His Spirit. We are in His Spirit and His Spirit is in us.

 

[Alan Gross]

There is no reference or relationship to 'salvation' being involved,
other than they 'that are joined' are already saved.


1 Corinthians 6:17

He that is joined unto the Lord
As every elect person is; his whole person, soul and body, is united to the Lord Jesus Christ, to his whole person, as God-man and Mediato

 

[Silverhair]

In these two verses a passive verb is translated as if the person is doing the action, in a little less than one third of the English Translations on Biblegateway. And the list includes such well regarded versions as the LEB and NASB. However the NET does not engage in the grammatical transformation.

The question for study is why do so many translations alter the passive grammar and translate the word as meaning joins himself.

Does anyone know the answer?

If we join ourselves with Christ, then why does 1 Corinthians 1:30 say God puts us into Christ? The questionable translation choice also suggests that we save ourselves by joining ourselves with Christ.

The question for study is why do so many translations alter the passive grammar and translate the word as meaning joins himself.

Look at the context of these verses. What do they tell us?

Paul uses the same phrasing:
he who is joined to a harlot is one body with her
he who is joined to the Lord is one spirit with Him

The grammatical construction allows for either a passive or middle understanding of the participle so we must look to context for an answer.

The context is focused on the volition of those involved. A middle voice. Are they forced to go into a harlot {passive} NO. Are they drawn to the harlot {middle} YES. It is the same with Christ we are not forced, we are drawn to Him. Only God saves but He only saves the willing.

They were not forced {passive} to do either of these things. We see this view carried out in the next verse where they are to actively reject sin.