1 Corinthians 6:16-17

[percho]

Was the death of Jesus the Christ the Son of the Living God, absolutely necessary, for any one to be saved?
Was the resurrection of Jesus the Christ the Son of the Living God out of the dead ones, that is to be quickened to the spirit 1 Cor 15 :17 & 1 Peter 3:18, absolutely necessary, for any one to be saved?

What are the odds, that in the above, is found the faith and the grace of God, that bringeth salvation?

Now my understanding is; Because of the above the promise of the Holy Spirit to indwell men became available and God, according to purpose, is calling out of the nations and giving them the gift of the Holy Spirit thus joining them to Christ as a people for his name, to rule with Christ when Christ again appears in the regeneration.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

God saved us by grace and gives us faith to believe.
Here Peter reiterates this truth:

He was foreknown before the foundation of the world but was made manifest in the last times for the sake of you who through him are believers in God, who raised him from the dead and gave him glory, so that your faith and hope are in God.
~ 1 Peter 1:20-21

Faith is a glorious gift of God which confirms what God has graciously done.

Your still NOT save without it. Because without it you will never recieve the gift of salvation.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Re-read the text. When did God extend his grace to you...when you were still dead or when you were alive?
If you say that faith precedes salvation and you say that you had faith while you were still dead, then you must say that faith is from your own flesh and not from God.

He extended grace to me the MOMENT he started to draw me to him,

But he did not save me UNTIL I repented and had faith

once again, BY GRACE THROUGH FAITH.

It seems you are not actually reading the entire passage. Instead, you are ignoring everything except one verse and then you are stating that your opinion on one verse, out of context, is the correct opinion.

You need to exegete the entire passage if you wish to have any legitimacy in your claim.

It seems to me YOUR not reading what is said.

I was justified BY FAITH.

I was not MADE ALIVE while still under the penalty of sin. That would be impossible. and God would have to go against his own character and ignore his justice.

without justification through redemption. There is no regeneration.

and no I do not have to say faith came from me. I would NEVER come to faith UNLESS God drew me, showed me and taught me through his word his leading and his people.

You do not become bankrupt in spirit by yourself. You become bankrupt because you have been shown the truth about yourself. your sin, and Gods justice

and you call out to God, because you have been shown Gods love and his mercy.

I am not sure where this thinking comes from. It makes no sense

 

[AustinC]

He extended grace to me the MOMENT he started to draw me to him,

But he did not save me UNTIL I repented and had faith

once again, BY GRACE THROUGH FAITH.


It seems to me YOUR not reading what is said.

I was justified BY FAITH.

I was not MADE ALIVE while still under the penalty of sin. That would be impossible. and God would have to go against his own character and ignore his justice.

without justification through redemption. There is no regeneration.

and no I do not have to say faith came from me. I would NEVER come to faith UNLESS God drew me, showed me and taught me through his word his leading and his people.

You do not become bankrupt in spirit by yourself. You become bankrupt because you have been shown the truth about yourself. your sin, and Gods justice

and you call out to God, because you have been shown Gods love and his mercy.

I am not sure where this thinking comes from. It makes no sense

Then, by your admission, you caused God to save you by your actions...and the effect was God saving you. In your statement you reject Ephesians 2:1-7 and 9-10 as having any value or importance to you. Instead, you misinterpret vs 8 to force it to mean that you created your own faith and it was your own faith that saved you and caused God to act.

You can't/won't see it, but you effectively nullify grace.

EG, you and I were always bankrupt. We were just too blind to see. God had to heal our blindness and give light to us to see our wretchedness. God had to save you first, before you would believe it.

 

[AustinC]

Here's a few facts:
God extends grace unto salvation.
God gives the gift of faith so that we will believe.
God's gift of faith is the justification that our sins are substituted for Christ Jesus righteousness.
God justifies you by the faith God gave you.
God receives all glory and praise.
God sanctifies us.
God glorifies us.

No lifting up ourselves as some benevolent and cooperative agent that caused God to act only after we did our part. Such teaching is an attempt to remove glory from God and place that glory on self.

 

[Van]

1 Corinthians 6:17 (interpretive translation)
Yet the one being joined to the Lord is united with His Spirit. We are in His Spirit and His Spirit is in us.

God is the entity that joins us to the Spirit of God.
We are set apart, sanctified, when God places us into Christ spiritually, thus we are then "In Christ."
We are within His Spirit, and His Spirit is within us.
To be baptized with spirit includes being immersed into Christ's Spirit and being indwelt with Christ's Spirit.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Then, by your admission, you caused God to save you by your actions...and the effect was God saving you. In your statement you reject Ephesians 2:1-7 and 9-10 as having any value or importance to you. Instead, you misinterpret vs 8 to force it to mean that you created your own faith and it was your own faith that saved you and caused God to act.

You can't/won't see it, but you effectively nullify grace.

EG, you and I were always bankrupt. We were just too blind to see. God had to heal our blindness and give light to us to see our wretchedness. God had to save you first, before you would believe it.

I did not cause God to do anything

He offered me eternal life. all I did was out of desperation call out to him to save me, Just like the tax collector did.

the tax collector no more saved himself by calling out in faith than anyone else did

 

[AustinC]

I did not cause God to do anything

He offered me eternal life. all I did was out of desperation call out to him to save me, Just like the tax collector did.

the tax collector no more saved himself by calling out in faith than anyone else did

Stop.
God didn't make a bargain with you by making you an offer.
You were in open rebellion against God. You hated God and wanted complete rulership over God. You were a total slave to sin. You were bound in chains to your sin. You were a dead man walking. You had no hope.
God didn't break into the dungeon, specifically find your cell, and break your chains only to "offer" you salvation. God did so precisely because he chose to free you, with or without your consent. You believed precisely because God saved you and gave you the capacity to have faith that His breaking in to the dungeon and carrying you out of bondage actually, truly, happened. You did NOTHING to cooperate with God. God did it all. Now stop trying to lift yourself up while denying God the glory.

 

[Van]

1 Corinthians 6:17 (interpretive translation)
Yet the one being joined to the Lord is united with His Spirit. We are in His Spirit and His Spirit is in us.

God is the entity that joins us to the Spirit of God.
We are set apart, sanctified, when God places us into Christ spiritually, thus we are then "In Christ."
We are within His Spirit, and His Spirit is within us.
To be baptized with spirit includes being immersed into Christ's Spirit and being indwelt with Christ's Spirit.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Stop.
God didn't make a bargain with you by making you an offer.
You were in open rebellion against God. You hated God and wanted complete rulership over God. You were a total slave to sin. You were bound in chains to your sin. You were a dead man walking. You had no hope.
God didn't break into the dungeon, specifically find your cell, and break your chains only to "offer" you salvation. God did so precisely because he chose to free you, with or without your consent. You believed precisely because God saved you and gave you the capacity to have faith that His breaking in to the dungeon and carrying you out of bondage actually, truly, happened. You did NOTHING to cooperate with God. God did it all. Now stop trying to lift yourself up while denying God the glory.

No, you stop,

The whole Bible is about God through his love offering people hope and help and salvation,

just because your afraid to take any chance and trust god and him alone because your afraid that will be work, don’t be taking it out on others,

I refuse to get into a fatalistic argument with you. God is a god of love, and his love will reach throughout eternity as the world sees it if you do not like that, Thats too bad.

 

[AustinC]

No, you stop,

The whole Bible is about God through his love offering people hope and help and salvation,

just because your afraid to take any chance and trust god and him alone because your afraid that will be work, don’t be taking it out on others,

I refuse to get into a fatalistic argument with you. God is a god of love, and his love will reach throughout eternity as the world sees it if you do not like that, Thats too bad.

No, it is not.
The whole Bible is about God making a Covenant with some people and then fulfilling his part of the Covenant.

What you have tried is attempt to strip God of His Sovereignty while lifting men up to equal cooperators with God. You are wrong.

The Bible shows us from the fall to the final Kingdom that God Sovereignly chooses to extend mercy and grace to whom He wills and to harden whom He wills.

What fear do I have? God chose to redeem me. God chose to give me the gift of faith. God chose to pour our promise after promise to me and blessing after blessing, when I deserve none of it. What fear? I don't own a gun. I say hi to everyone who walks by. I know that God has an inheritance for me when I meet Him face to face. God is so good and so kind. What is this fear you imagine me to have?

 

[Eternally Grateful]

No, it is not.
The whole Bible is about God making a Covenant with some people and then fulfilling his part of the Covenant.

What you have tried is attempt to strip God of His Sovereignty while lifting men up to equal cooperators with God. You are wrong.

The Bible shows us from the fall to the final Kingdom that God Sovereignly chooses to extend mercy and grace to whom He wills and to harden whom He wills.

What fear do I have? God chose to redeem me. God chose to give me the gift of faith. God chose to pour our promise after promise to me and blessing after blessing, when I deserve none of it. What fear? I don't own a gun. I say hi to everyone who walks by. I know that God has an inheritance for me when I meet Him face to face. God is so good and so kind. What is this fear you imagine me to have?

What you are doing is stripping God of his love and his right to do as he pleases.

God has the right to love whoever he wants to love and if he chooses to love the whole world. and die for them. but chooses to not FORCE them to receive him, But allow them the OPTION to receive or deny him.

Then that's Gods right.and I have no right to tell God what he can or can not do. as you are doing.

Once again, I refuse to get into a fatalistic argument with you..

 

[AustinC]

What you are doing is stripping God of his love and his right to do as he pleases.

God has the right to love whoever he wants to love and if he chooses to love the whole world. and die for them. but chooses to not FORCE them to receive him, But allow them the OPTION to receive or deny him.

Then that's Gods right.and I have no right to tell God what he can or can not do. as you are doing.

Once again, I refuse to get into a fatalistic argument with you..

A loving God is a just God. A Sovereign God does as he pleases and lovingly executes justice. This is precisely why Jesus had to die to pay for the sins of those written into the will (New Covenant). Without Jesus taking the justice of God upon himself for our lawless deeds, you and I would justly and lovingly be sent to eternal damnation.
God choosing to redeem just one person is an act of loving grace that is amazing. That he has redeemed billions over time is extraordinary grace.
That you and I have no say in whom God chooses shows our status as sinners and God's Supremacy to do whatsoever he wills.

Therefore, your first sentence is openly false.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

A loving God is a just God. A Sovereign God does as he pleases and lovingly executes justice. This is precisely why Jesus had to die to pay for the sins of those written into the will (New Covenant). Without Jesus taking the justice of God upon himself for our lawless deeds, you and I would justly and lovingly be sent to eternal damnation.
God choosing to redeem just one person is an act of loving grace that is amazing. That he has redeemed billions over time is extraordinary grace.
That you and I have no say in whom God chooses shows our status as sinners and God's Supremacy to do whatsoever he wills.

Therefore, your first sentence is openly false.

Once again, want to judge people as openly rejecting Gods sovereignty, when it is you who are doing this

If God wants to die for the world to satisfy his justice./ God in his sovereignty is allowed to do this

If God wants to out of love, desire people to receive his gift freely without having to force it on them. He is allowed to do this, it does NOT negate his sovereignty

If God wants to out of justice condemn people who of their own free will reject his offer of salvation TO THEM

then again, God has the right to do that.

 

[AustinC]

Once again, want to judge people as openly rejecting Gods sovereignty, when it is you who are doing this

If God wants to die for the world to satisfy his justice./ God in his sovereignty is allowed to do this

If God wants to out of love, desire people to receive his gift freely without having to force it on them. He is allowed to do this, it does NOT negate his sovereignty

If God wants to out of justice condemn people who of their own free will reject his offer of salvation TO THEM

then again, God has the right to do that.

You continually misunderstand what God tells you he has done and then you try to foist your opinion upon God to cause him to act according to your demands...then you call that...Sovereignty.

I cannot make up such a convoluted concept of sovereignty as you have created.

Look at all the "ifs" you have forced into your thoughts. You have created a fantasy and call it a possibility. How about we look at reality where what God actually tells you is the standard of belief.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

You continually misunderstand what God tells you he has done and then you try to foist your opinion upon God to cause him to act according to your demands...then you call that...Sovereignty.

Whatever

I cannot make up such a convoluted concept of sovereignty as you have created.

Look at all the "ifs" you have forced into your thoughts. You have created a fantasy and call it a possibility. How about we look at reality where what God actually tells you is the standard of belief.

I can not make up a loving God that does what you claim he does. then calls himself loving, or a God that said he died for the world. yet only died for a few people..

Double predestination or fatalism is seriously damaging to Gods character..

I am done with this conversation. I said I would not get into calvinist debate,. so I am done.

Believe what you want, but leave your judgment to yourself.

 

[AustinC]

Whatever



I can not make up a loving God that does what you claim he does. then calls himself loving, or a God that said he died for the world. yet only died for a few people..

Double predestination or fatalism is seriously damaging to Gods character..

I am done with this conversation. I said I would not get into calvinist debate,. so I am done.

Believe what you want, but leave your judgment to yourself.

It's not what I claim. It's what the Bible claims. But, you apparently don't want the God of the Bible. Instead you want the god you have created in your mind.

 

[37818]

It's not what I claim. It's what the Bible claims.

It is what you understand the Bible to claim.

 

[AustinC]

It is what you understand the Bible to claim.

Incorrect. I provide biblical support beyond a sentence with no surrounding context. Be honest and admit you really haven't studied the Covenants God has established and how they inform our understanding of God's redemptive process.

 

[37818]

Incorrect. I provide biblical support beyond a sentence with no surrounding context. Be honest and admit you really haven't studied the Covenants God has established and how they inform our understanding of God's redemptive process.

It is good when you have.

Not a single Scripture being given here.
Rhetoric without Biblical substance.