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Featured Understanding John 1:14

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by Van, Jun 20, 2022.

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  1. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    Your "different" is just another distinction without a difference.

    Translating monogenes as uniquely divine when used to describe Jesus is clarifying the message and those who see error of simply fault finding where there is none.
     
  2. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    Since "sent from" is within the historical usage of the word, your false assertion is driven my animus rather than expertise.
    I. with the genitive; and as in Greek prose writings always with the genitive of a person, to denote that a thing proceeds from.
     
  3. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    This is a false assertion, rejected recently by the NASB translators. The "Son" is forever and ever, thus was the Son before the incarnation.
     
  4. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    At lease some of the time, but not all the time!
     
  5. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    Did anyone say otherwise? Just more gibberish posted to derail actual bible study.
     
  6. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    Returning to topic:
    The next phrase (of the only Son from the Father) contains several controversial words which I believe must be dealt with collectively.

    Of the only Son is the NASB translation of monogenes, and could better be translated as uniquely divine Son.

    From (Greek para) might better be translated as "sent from" indicating God incarnate was sent by the Father. Putting the phrase together we get, "the uniquely divine Son sent from the Father.

    John 1:14 (NASB)
    And the Word became flesh, and dwelt among us; and we saw His glory, glory as of the only Son from the Father, full of grace and truth.

    John 1:14 (interpretative translation)
    And Logos (the Second Person of the Trinity) became human (God incarnate), and dwelt among us, and we saw His glory (glory as the Son of God, the Lamb of God, the Christ, Messiah and Savior, the image of God and as the Good Shepherd, caring for and nurturing His sheep) as the uniquely divine Son sent from the Father, full of grace and truth.
     
  7. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    Grace is not a substance like gravy, to be ladled upon a person, but a attribute of love given to those chosen by the giver not because of any meritorious attribute of the receiver, but according to the gracious choice of the giver. Often the bestowal of divine favor or blessing as an unmerited gift.

    Truth refers to what has fidelity to the original, thus because Christ is the perfect image of God, He is the Truth. Thus John 1:14 teaches Jesus as God incarnate mission was to bestow God's indescribable gift and provide revelation of that gift.
     
  8. The Archangel

    The Archangel Well-Known Member

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    False. I pointed out where you said that which you claimed you did not say. It is not a "distinction without a difference."

    Again where your understanding is failing is this: Translation and interpretation are not the same.

    What you've quoted here has nothing to do with understanding there to be a verb in the preposition. With the John 1:14 passage, as I've stated before, the prepositional phrase is related to the noun "glory." What John is telling us is that Jesus' glory was from the Father. This clause says nothing about whether or not Jesus was sent from the Father.

    And... you know it's funny... whenever me or someone who shares my theological convictions says something about translation issues, etc. you always remark about us making up translations. But, you seem to feel the freedom to make up your own things while chastising us (wrongly) for "making up" things. So, what you're engaging in here is simply hypocrisy.

    The Archangel
     
  9. The Archangel

    The Archangel Well-Known Member

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    Still false.

    The Archangel
     
  10. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    Why are you constantly hoisting false charges.

    Your claims from Greek grammar are calculated to discredit the biblical truth posted.

    Did anyone say translation and interpretation are exactly the same thing? Why not address what I say, rather than all these generalized observations.

    I quoted support from a published source that para can be used to mean "sent from." You had claimed otherwise falsely. You mentioned "genitive" as if to clothe your false claim in language expertise, shameful.

    Bottom line, para can be translated as "sent from."
     
  11. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    Taint so, taint so, and on and on the obfuscation goes.
     
  12. The Archangel

    The Archangel Well-Known Member

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    None of what you've written here is accurate.

    The Archangel
     
  13. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    None of what you have written here is accurate. It is simply a taint so post. Go figure.

    Other alternative ways "para" can be translated are:
    "provided by" the Father.
    "given by" the faith
     
  14. Dave G

    Dave G Well-Known Member

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    In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
    2 The same was in the beginning with God.
    3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
    4 In him was life; and the life was the light of men
    ." ( John 1:1-4 )

    " And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth." ( John 1:14 ).

    "And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory." ( 1 Timothy 3:16 ).

    " Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am. " ( John 8:58 ).

    " Ye call me Master and Lord: and ye say well; for [so] I am." ( John 13:13 ).

    " And Moses said unto God, Behold, [when] I come unto the children of Israel, and shall say unto them, The God of your fathers hath sent me unto you; and they shall say to me, What [is] his name? what shall I say unto them?
    14 And God said unto Moses, I AM THAT I AM: and he said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I AM hath sent me unto you."
    ( Exodus 3:14 ).

    " This is he that came by water and blood, [even] Jesus Christ; not by water only, but by water and blood. And it is the Spirit that beareth witness, because the Spirit is truth.
    7 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.
    " ( 1 John 5:6-7 )

    I'm not sure why any believer would have trouble understanding that Jesus is the Word made flesh, He is God incarnate, God the Son and that John 1:14 is but a continuation of what is developed beginning in John 1:1.
    To me, it doesn't get any more complicated than simply believing the words as written, without needing to look at what the Greek says.


    May God bless all.
     
    • Winner Winner x 1
  15. The Archangel

    The Archangel Well-Known Member

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    Again... You don't just choose what you think is best in actual exegesis. If you knew Greek at all (beyond a lexicon) you'd know that.

    The Archangel
     
  16. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    You seem not to understand why translators make differing choices. Do they translate "para" as "provided by?" You bet. How about to give? Yes indeed. You see, or perhaps don't, translators evaluate the context and choose the word that best conveys the intended message from the pallet of historically available word meanings. Thus if the idea is something or someone sent by another, sent from is a valid choice.
     
    #56 Van, Jun 22, 2022
    Last edited: Jun 22, 2022
  17. JesusFan

    JesusFan Well-Known Member

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    Son of man was a Messianic Figure, one who was with God and was Himself also God, as in John prologue!
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  18. JesusFan

    JesusFan Well-Known Member

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    The Greek text is more accurate then any translation made form it though!
     
  19. JesusFan

    JesusFan Well-Known Member

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    Did the Nasb 2020 reject it for grammar reasons, or to be more PC?
     
  20. JesusFan

    JesusFan Well-Known Member

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    No one has ever seen the father at any times meant?
     
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