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Featured To What Degree do you believe a lost soul Assists God in their "Salvation"?

Discussion in 'Calvinism & Arminianism Debate' started by Alan Gross, Jul 26, 2022.

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  1. Alan Gross

    Alan Gross Well-Known Member

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    To the Degree an individual has a testimony that Man Helps God, then that is the Degree to which they are Palagian.

    Is this true?

    To What Degree do you believe a lost soul Assists God in their "Salvation"?
     
    #1 Alan Gross, Jul 26, 2022
  2. Deacon

    Deacon Well-Known Member
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    Zero
     
    #2 Deacon, Jul 27, 2022
    • Winner Winner x 3
  3. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    The question supposes God has no requirements in order to be saved.
    Matthew 7:21. Hebrews 5:9. God solely does the saving. John 1:13.
     
    #3 37818, Jul 27, 2022
  4. Earth Wind and Fire

    Earth Wind and Fire Well-Known Member
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    I don’t understand… ‘assists God’ :Laugh
     
    #4 Earth Wind and Fire, Jul 27, 2022
  5. Earth Wind and Fire

    Earth Wind and Fire Well-Known Member
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    Right… God solely does the saving!
     
    #5 Earth Wind and Fire, Jul 27, 2022
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  6. JesusFan

    JesusFan Well-Known Member

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    I would tend to see real Pel therology as being one who denies that we have been affected by the Fall, are still able to exercise own free will to get saved, and deny even are spiritually dead!
     
    #6 JesusFan, Jul 27, 2022
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  7. Earth Wind and Fire

    Earth Wind and Fire Well-Known Member
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    Yup
     
    #7 Earth Wind and Fire, Jul 27, 2022
  8. Alan Gross

    Alan Gross Well-Known Member

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    HORROR!

    I feel sorry for them.

    They are missing the ultimate Blessing of seeing The Godhead's Manifold Wisdom in His Eternal Plan of Salvation.

    Understanding starts from the Fear of God and discernment of all of us being Spiritually dead and that God Could have left any of us there.
     
    #8 Alan Gross, Jul 27, 2022
  9. tyndale1946

    tyndale1946 Well-Known Member
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    Isaiah 45:5 I am the LORD, and there is none else, there is no God beside me: I girded thee, though thou hast not known me:

    6 That they may know from the rising of the sun, and from the west, that there is none beside me. I am the LORD, and there is none else.

    Brother Glen:)
     
    #9 tyndale1946, Jul 27, 2022
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  10. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    No, it is false.

    If they place salvation on the uninfluenced decision of man, and living a Christian life completely on man's innate ability, then the person would hold at least a degree of Pelagianism.

    If they placed initial salvation on man and then living the Christian life on God then that would be semi-Pelagianism.

    But cooperation with God is as far from Pelagianism as Calvinism and Armianism.

    Comparing the two would be like saying Calvinists worship Clotho to a degree as far as predestination relates to fate. It is a dishonest comparison.
     
    #10 JonC, Jul 27, 2022
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  11. JesusFan

    JesusFan Well-Known Member

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    If one holds are not spiritually dead, and can still accept God and his salvation due to free will only, is Pel. if they co assist God to save them, are Semi!
     
    #11 JesusFan, Jul 27, 2022
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  12. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    No, but almost. If one believes we accept God of our own innate ability and from there they live by God's control then they affirm Semi-Pelagianism.

    On the BB members confuse Arminianism, Wesleyan Armenianism, Free-Will Theology, and Semi-Pelagianism all the time. Mostly out of ignorance, I think.

    We have Arminianism and Free-Will Theogy here on the BB. I do not know of any who affirm Wesleyan Armianism or Semi-Pelagianism. Do you?
     
    #12 JonC, Jul 27, 2022
  13. JesusFan

    JesusFan Well-Known Member

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    Any who would hold that we are co asisting God, that we make the decision based upon our own free will, and are not enable do do such by God, would be!
     
    #13 JesusFan, Jul 28, 2022
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  14. Revmitchell

    Revmitchell Well-Known Member
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    So the problem with this question is it is based on a false premise and a presupposition not found in scripture. The biblical concept that a person responds to God through believing in God and His salvation via a choice made between two options, to choose to follow God or to choose to not follow God, is not an example of assisting God. It is a question designed out of the presupposition that any free will attempt to respond to God minimizes the sovereignty of God and places some of the credit on man. This is false and is actually a straw man. No one is arguing for such a position. It is a false characterization of the view of someone with whom you disagree with. The question lacks genuineness.
     
    #14 Revmitchell, Jul 28, 2022
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  15. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    No. That is part of it, but in and of itself that belief is not Pelagianism or Semi-Pelagianism.
     
    #15 JonC, Jul 28, 2022
  16. JesusFan

    JesusFan Well-Known Member

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    IF one denies that they must have the Holy Spirit enabling them in any fashion to receive Jesus as Lord, that would indeed be Pel!
     
    #16 JesusFan, Jul 29, 2022
  17. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    No. That would not. That is like saying IF one denies conditional atonement they must be hyper-Calvinists.

    An affirmation that man can choose God in salvation apart from the work of the Spirit is a part of Pelaganism (and semi-Pelagianism).

    While that proves you have been incorrect in your accusations of some (nobody on this board has made such a claim) it is not in itself what defines either heresy.
     
    #17 JonC, Jul 29, 2022
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  18. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    Iet's be clear here, the lost do not in any way assist God in their salvation. If anything the lost hinder their salvation.
     
    #18 37818, Jul 30, 2022
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  19. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    @37818

    Thank you for your prayers.

    I am glad we agree on this topic.

    Too many use "Pelagianism" and "Semi-Pelagianism" as insults tossed at people who hold neither heresy. I hope it is out of ignorance, but if so it is willful ignorance.
     
    #19 JonC, Jul 30, 2022
  20. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    This is Reformation Armianism. Is that your theological position?
     
    #20 JonC, Jul 30, 2022
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