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Featured To What Degree do you believe a lost soul Assists God in their "Salvation"?

Discussion in 'Calvinism & Arminianism Debate' started by Alan Gross, Jul 26, 2022.

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  1. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    No. I am neither Arminian or a Calvinist. Though I can probably be accused of sharing some views with both. It makes me frustrated when some professed Calvinists wrongly accuse me of not understanding the Biblical teaching of grace and falsely accuse me of works based salvation. I attempt to be clear in my explanations. There are always some differences between what the a translation explicitly says versus how one's interpretation may say something the texts does not explicitly say. That is why it is an interpretation.
     
    #21 37818, Jul 30, 2022
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  2. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    I get your agreement with my post even more. I also am not a Calvinist or an Arminian. And I also think those who use heresies as insults need our prayers.
     
    #22 JonC, Jul 30, 2022
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  3. Alan Gross

    Alan Gross Well-Known Member

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    Through (Dia) Faith

    IN THIS POST: "To What Degree do you believe
    a lost soul Assists God in their "Salvation"?,

    I am looking for a percentage and the above quote, of Van's, from another post, seems to say that the "faith" of an individual 100% gains them 'Credit' of The Perfect Righteousness of Jesus, that Jesus Accomplished in His Virgin Born, Perfect Life and Death, Burial, and Ressurection from the dead, i.e., "by way of their Credited Faith", without Conversion, a Blood Sacrifice, or the sinner laying down their Sword of Rebellion against The Trice-Holy God, in Repentance.

    How far off am I?
     
    #23 Alan Gross, Jul 30, 2022
  4. JesusFan

    JesusFan Well-Known Member

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    The Holy Spirit alone can enable a lost sinner to call upon Jesus as their Lord, and Both Calvinists and Arminians both affirm that truth!
     
    #24 JesusFan, Jul 30, 2022
  5. JesusFan

    JesusFan Well-Known Member

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    Any who would affirm lost sinner does not require the gracing of the Holy Spirit in any form to be able to receive jests as Lord indeed holds to Pelagianism!
     
    #25 JesusFan, Jul 30, 2022
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  6. JesusFan

    JesusFan Well-Known Member

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    Any who would affirm lost sinner does not require the gracing of the Holy Spirit in any form to be able to receive jests as Lord indeed holds to Pelagianism!
     
    #26 JesusFan, Jul 30, 2022
  7. JesusFan

    JesusFan Well-Known Member

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    Do you hold to pelangianism then?
     
    #27 JesusFan, Jul 30, 2022
  8. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    @JesusFan
    Check who agrees. Post #18
     
    #28 37818, Jul 30, 2022
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  9. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    I agree. But just denying the Holy Spirit is necessary to believe is not in and of itself Pelagianism or Semi-Pelagianism.

    That said, you have accused people of holding to Pelagianism or Semi-Pelagianism when they denied one could be saved without the work of the Spirit because they held to free-will theology.

    You see my point, how that was wring of you....correct?
     
    #29 JonC, Jul 30, 2022
  10. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    I agree. But just denying the Holy Spirit is necessary to believe is not in and of itself Pelagianism or Semi-Pelagianism.

    That said, you have accused people of holding to Pelagianism or Semi-Pelagianism when they denied one could be saved without the work of the Spirit because they held to free-will theology.

    You see my point, how that was wrong of you....correct?
     
    #30 JonC, Jul 30, 2022
  11. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    Absolutely.

    Without God drawing man, man will never be saved. This is the "problem" of man - our "sin nature". We turn to ourselves, not to God.

    My point with @JesusFan is simply that Pelagianism and semi-Pelagianism entails more than merely rejecting the truth that no man comes to Christ except the Father draw him.

    That is part of the two heresies, but not the heresies themselves.

    The larger problem is members on this board (including @JesusFan ) refer to any belief that views infants as sinners, yet innocent of actually committing a sinful act, as either Pelagianism or semi-Pelagianism. That is simply a false charge.

    Pelagianism is a free-will theology (obviously) BUT not all free-will theology is Pelagianism.

    It is time members stop misusing terms to insult the beliefs of other members. Ignorance of the two heresies is no excuse as there are ample resources available concerning those false teachings.
     
    #31 JonC, Jul 30, 2022
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  12. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    No. Do you hold to Pelagianism then? If so, you are the only one I know of on this board holding to Pelagianism or Semi-Pelagianism, and the Staff needs to discuss whether it is appropriate for you to remain a member.
     
    #32 JonC, Jul 30, 2022
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  13. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    BUT NOBODY HAS MADE THAT CLAIM ON THIS BOARD.

    And Pelagianism is more than just denying that God must draw people to Himself.

    As evidence - Both Pelagianism and semi-Pelagianism hold to the false teaching that men do not need the drawing of God to be saved. But Pelagianism and semi-Pelagianism are NOT the same things.

    I'd actually argue that some forms of Arminianism is Calvinism altered by incorporating the inverse of semi-Pelagianism (man must be drawn to be saved, but may lose his salvation of his own accord).
     
    #33 JonC, Jul 30, 2022
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  14. Silverhair

    Silverhair Well-Known Member

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    Then it would be fair to call all Calvinists mindless robots. I mean you are the ones that don't even have faith as it has to be given to you.
     
    #34 Silverhair, Jul 30, 2022
  15. Silverhair

    Silverhair Well-Known Member

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    The lost can respond to the invitation of God, the gospel, and those that do accept Christ as Lord, God will save.
     
    #35 Silverhair, Jul 30, 2022
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  16. Bible Thumpin n Gun Totin

    Bible Thumpin n Gun Totin Well-Known Member
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    Totally depraved man under grace can choose to accept or reject the gift of Salvation. Unsure if that is what is meant by "assists" or not. I wouldn't consider it "assists", but some would.

    Mankind cannot work to achieve salvation, and adds nothing to God's Salvation.
     
    #36 Bible Thumpin n Gun Totin, Jul 30, 2022
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  17. JesusFan

    JesusFan Well-Known Member

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    I have problems with "free will" in the sense that arminians use the term, but even they do see a real and definitive need to have the Holy Spirit grant saving grace to be even able to receive the Lord Jesus, but those who see it as just themselves able to place faith in Jesus do hold to another gospel!
     
    #37 JesusFan, Jul 31, 2022
  18. JesusFan

    JesusFan Well-Known Member

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    If one defines free will as being that we have inherit within ourselves saving faith, and have no need of the Holy Spirit to enable us to exercise that faith in any fashion, that is indeed heresy!
     
    #38 JesusFan, Jul 31, 2022
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  19. JesusFan

    JesusFan Well-Known Member

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    I am a Calvinist Baptist, so why would I ever even think of holding to that heresy?
     
    #39 JesusFan, Jul 31, 2022
  20. JesusFan

    JesusFan Well-Known Member

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    I am NOT accusing any here of being into Pelaianism, and do affirm that many in todays Christianity are semi ones, but that in and by itself is not heretical!
     
    #40 JesusFan, Jul 31, 2022
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