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To What Degree do you believe a lost soul Assists God in their "Salvation"?

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Brightfame52

Well-Known Member
Silverhair said:
Are you asking if one has to be regenerated before they can turn to God. That is a Calvinist doctrine as one being regenerated is = to one being saved. So Calvinists have the person saved before they believe or as they say God has to give them faith to believe.

But as the bible says we are without excuse because what can be know of God is evident and we know the Holy Spirit convicts us of sin and draws us through the gospel message and when we respond by faith in Christ Jesus, God the Father saves us.

And in response to the post title
"To What Degree do you believe a lost soul Assists God in their "Salvation"?"

None, God saves those that trust in the Son. That is not assisting God, that is depending on God.
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Sure a person must be saved in order to believe, a lost person cant believe, because hes lost !
 
Silverhair

Silverhair

Well-Known Member
Brightfame52 said:
Sure a person must be saved in order to believe, a lost person cant believe, because hes lost !
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Why do you continue to disagree with the Holy Spirit or do you think He just got it wrong?

Eph 1:13 In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise,

Rom 10:9 that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved.
Rom 10:10 For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
Rom 10:11 For the Scripture says, "WHOEVER BELIEVES ON HIM WILL NOT BE PUT TO SHAME."

Eph 2:8 For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God,
Eph 2:9 not of works, lest anyone should boast.
 
B

Brightfame52

Well-Known Member
Silverhair said:
Why do you continue to disagree with the Holy Spirit or do you think He just got it wrong?

Eph 1:13 In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise,

Rom 10:9 that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved.
Rom 10:10 For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
Rom 10:11 For the Scripture says, "WHOEVER BELIEVES ON HIM WILL NOT BE PUT TO SHAME."

Eph 2:8 For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God,
Eph 2:9 not of works, lest anyone should boast.
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Those verses are talking about saved people who believe, not lost people.
 
Silverhair

Silverhair

Well-Known Member
Brightfame52 said:
What do you mean ? Im saying a person has to be saved in order to believe. A lost person cannot believe.
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The lost person has to believe that is how they become un-lost/saved. What did Jesus say to the Jews when He started His ministry?

Mar 1:15 and saying, "The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand. Repent, and believe in the gospel."

Jesus gives two imperatives:
metanoeō G3340 (G5720), you must repent, and
pisteuō G4100 (G5720), you must believe.

Notice He did not say "I have saved you so now you can repent and believe" Your theology has got it backwards.
 
JonC

JonC

Moderator
Moderator
Brightfame52 said:
What do you mean ? Im saying a person has to be saved in order to believe. A lost person cannot believe.
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It's a flaw in how we look at things (in micro-doctrines).

If one has to be saved to believe then you have saved unbelievers, which is unbiblical.

If one has to believe in order to be saved then you lost believers, which is unbiblical.
 
B

Brightfame52

Well-Known Member
Silverhair said:
The lost person has to believe that is how they become un-lost/saved. What did Jesus say to the Jews when He started His ministry?

Mar 1:15 and saying, "The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand. Repent, and believe in the gospel."

Jesus gives two imperatives:
metanoeō G3340 (G5720), you must repent, and
pisteuō G4100 (G5720), you must believe.

Notice He did not say "I have saved you so now you can repent and believe" Your theology has got it backwards.
Click to expand...
Sorry a lost person can't believe because they lost.
 
B

Brightfame52

Well-Known Member
JonC said:
It's a flaw in how we look at things (in micro-doctrines).

If one has to be saved to believe then you have saved unbelievers, which is unbiblical.

If one has to believe in order to be saved then you lost believers, which is unbiblical.
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I don't know what you talking about. A lost person can't believe that is why they lost. The Gospel is hidden to the lost 2 Cor 4:3-4
 
JonC

JonC

Moderator
Moderator
Brightfame52 said:
I don't know what you talking about. A lost person can't believe that is why they lost. The Gospel is hidden to the lost 2 Cor 4:3-4
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I understand what you are saying. A lost person can't believe. I agree that if one believes then they are not lost.

BUT you posted that a person has to be saved in order to believe.

This means one is saved while an unbeliever (saved without faith). That is wrong.
 
B

Brightfame52

Well-Known Member
JonC said:
I understand what you are saying. A lost person can't believe. I agree that if one believes then they are not lost.

BUT you posted that a person has to be saved in order to believe.

This means one is saved while an unbeliever (saved without faith). That is wrong.
Click to expand...
Yes one must be saved in order to believe since a lost person can't believe.
 
JonC

JonC

Moderator
Moderator
Brightfame52 said:
Saved people who do not believe? I have no idea what you talking about
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I am trying to make sense of your statement here:
Brightfame52 said:
What do you mean ? Im saying a person has to be saved in order to believe. A lost person cannot believe.
Click to expand...

I am reading that to mean one must be saved in order to believe (one is saved and then believes).

Am I misunderstanding what you mean?
 
B

Brightfame52

Well-Known Member
JonC said:
I am trying to make sense of your statement here:


I am reading that to mean one must be saved in order to believe (one is saved and then believes).

Am I misunderstanding what you mean?
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I don't see how you can not understand what I have said. A person must be saved in order to believe. Why? Because a lost person can't believe. A lost person is spiritually deaf, blind, dead.
 
JonC

JonC

Moderator
Moderator
Brightfame52 said:
I don't see how you can not understand what I have said. A person must be saved in order to believe. Why? Because a lost person can't believe. A lost person is spiritually deaf, blind, dead.
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Does salvation come before belief?
 
J

JesusFan

Well-Known Member
Silverhair said:
Are you asking if one has to be regenerated before they can turn to God. That is a Calvinist doctrine as one being regenerated is = to one being saved. So Calvinists have the person saved before they believe or as they say God has to give them faith to believe.

But as the bible says we are without excuse because what can be know of God is evident and we know the Holy Spirit convicts us of sin and draws us through the gospel message and when we respond by faith in Christ Jesus, God the Father saves us.

And in response to the post title
"To What Degree do you believe a lost soul Assists God in their "Salvation"?"

None, God saves those that trust in the Son. That is not assisting God, that is depending on God.
Click to expand...
We must be enabled by the Holy Spirit to be able to respond to the Gospel message, as being spiritually dead, we all are born deaf and dumb to things of God!
 
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