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Featured To What Degree do you believe a lost soul Assists God in their "Salvation"?

Discussion in 'Calvinism & Arminianism Debate' started by Alan Gross, Jul 26, 2022.

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  1. Brightfame52

    Brightfame52 Well-Known Member

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    Sure a person must be saved in order to believe, a lost person cant believe, because hes lost !
     
    #61 Brightfame52, Aug 7, 2022
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  2. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    But can somebody who believes be unsaved?
     
    #62 JonC, Aug 7, 2022
  3. Silverhair

    Silverhair Well-Known Member

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    Why do you continue to disagree with the Holy Spirit or do you think He just got it wrong?

    Eph 1:13 In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise,

    Rom 10:9 that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved.
    Rom 10:10 For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
    Rom 10:11 For the Scripture says, "WHOEVER BELIEVES ON HIM WILL NOT BE PUT TO SHAME."

    Eph 2:8 For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God,
    Eph 2:9 not of works, lest anyone should boast.
     
    #63 Silverhair, Aug 7, 2022
  4. Brightfame52

    Brightfame52 Well-Known Member

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    What do you mean ? Im saying a person has to be saved in order to believe. A lost person cannot believe.
     
    #64 Brightfame52, Aug 7, 2022
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  5. Brightfame52

    Brightfame52 Well-Known Member

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    Those verses are talking about saved people who believe, not lost people.
     
    #65 Brightfame52, Aug 7, 2022
  6. Silverhair

    Silverhair Well-Known Member

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    The lost person has to believe that is how they become un-lost/saved. What did Jesus say to the Jews when He started His ministry?

    Mar 1:15 and saying, "The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand. Repent, and believe in the gospel."

    Jesus gives two imperatives:
    metanoeō G3340 (G5720), you must repent, and
    pisteuō G4100 (G5720), you must believe.

    Notice He did not say "I have saved you so now you can repent and believe" Your theology has got it backwards.
     
    #66 Silverhair, Aug 7, 2022
  7. Silverhair

    Silverhair Well-Known Member

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    Ya they are saved, after they believe. You are just avoiding the text. Whom do you think we should believe, you or the Holy Spirit?
     
    #67 Silverhair, Aug 7, 2022
  8. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    It's a flaw in how we look at things (in micro-doctrines).

    If one has to be saved to believe then you have saved unbelievers, which is unbiblical.

    If one has to believe in order to be saved then you lost believers, which is unbiblical.
     
    #68 JonC, Aug 7, 2022
  9. Brightfame52

    Brightfame52 Well-Known Member

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    Sorry a lost person can't believe because they lost.
     
    #69 Brightfame52, Aug 8, 2022
  10. Brightfame52

    Brightfame52 Well-Known Member

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    No they believe because they are saved. Believing evidences them being in a saved state
     
    #70 Brightfame52, Aug 8, 2022
  11. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    So these saved people who do not believe . . . how are they saved if not through faith in Christ?
     
    #71 JonC, Aug 8, 2022
  12. Brightfame52

    Brightfame52 Well-Known Member

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    I don't know what you talking about. A lost person can't believe that is why they lost. The Gospel is hidden to the lost 2 Cor 4:3-4
     
    #72 Brightfame52, Aug 8, 2022
  13. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    I understand what you are saying. A lost person can't believe. I agree that if one believes then they are not lost.

    BUT you posted that a person has to be saved in order to believe.

    This means one is saved while an unbeliever (saved without faith). That is wrong.
     
    #73 JonC, Aug 8, 2022
  14. Brightfame52

    Brightfame52 Well-Known Member

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    Saved people who do not believe? I have no idea what you talking about
     
    #74 Brightfame52, Aug 8, 2022
  15. Brightfame52

    Brightfame52 Well-Known Member

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    Yes one must be saved in order to believe since a lost person can't believe.
     
    #75 Brightfame52, Aug 8, 2022
  16. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    I am trying to make sense of your statement here:

    I am reading that to mean one must be saved in order to believe (one is saved and then believes).

    Am I misunderstanding what you mean?
     
    #76 JonC, Aug 8, 2022
  17. Brightfame52

    Brightfame52 Well-Known Member

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    I don't see how you can not understand what I have said. A person must be saved in order to believe. Why? Because a lost person can't believe. A lost person is spiritually deaf, blind, dead.
     
    #77 Brightfame52, Aug 8, 2022
  18. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    Does salvation come before belief?
     
    #78 JonC, Aug 8, 2022
  19. JesusFan

    JesusFan Well-Known Member

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    Zero
     
    #79 JesusFan, Aug 8, 2022
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  20. JesusFan

    JesusFan Well-Known Member

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    We must be enabled by the Holy Spirit to be able to respond to the Gospel message, as being spiritually dead, we all are born deaf and dumb to things of God!
     
    #80 JesusFan, Aug 8, 2022
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