Featured Sin Laid On Jesus... A Sermon by C. H. Spurgeon

What are you saying "Nope" about?

 

Van's translation of the Hebrew word. It does not mean "encounter" in this instance.

The Archangel

 

So... You're taking someone else's word for it rather than being able to do any real exegetical work for yourself. That's what I've been saying you've been up to all along.

You have no mechanism or acumen to evaluate the footnote.

The Archangel

 

What you seem not to understand is that a Hebrew verbal root does not mean the same when it is in the Hifil stem as opposed to the Qal stem.

The word פָּגַע is translated several different ways: Entreat, came, met, fall, encounter, touch, reach, attack, urge, assault, strike, laid, intercede, etc.

The lexical form of Hebrew words is the Qal, 3rd Person, Masculine, Singular. In that form--the lexical form--the root does convey a sense of meeting or encountering. In fact, this word is one of the Hebrew words used as a euphemism for "kill." But, the Hifil stem is the causative of the Qal, and so the nuance is different. What is more the verb in Isaiah 53:6 is perfect, which denotes a completed action.

So, in short, referencing the Lexical form as a "literal meaning" is true, except the word doesn't mean "encounter" when it is in the Hifil stem. So, the NASB footnote is neither helpful or accurate in this instance. But, you'd only know that if you knew Hebrew.

The Archangel

 

Yet another you, you, you post demonstrating ignorance of the topic.

 

As if I have not posted dozens of posts addressing how to discern the best contextual meaning from among the historical/grammatical meanings.

Readers should be aware this know it all has also claimed Dr. Wallace was wrong. I kid you not...

 

"That is, he suffered in our stead; and whatever he was called to endure was in consequence of the fact that he had taken the place of sinners; and having taken their place, he met or encountered the sufferings which were the proper expressions of God's displeasure, and sunk under the mighty burden of the world's atonement."

Here is another scholar, Barnes, that Archangel says has no understanding of the word.

 

"Not properly, for he knew no sin; but the punishment of iniquity, as the word עון is frequently used. That which was due for all the sins of all mankind, which must needs be so heavy a load, that if he had not been God as well as man he must have sunk under the burden."

Here is another scholar, Benson, that Archangel says has no understanding of the word.

 

"Meaning, the punishment of our iniquity, and not the fault itself.
Here the Geneva Study Bible note is also claimed not to reflect the verse, according to unsupported claims of a poster.

So what is the actual view of many scholars?"

The Hebrew word translated as "laid" means to encounter or make intercession. So the Lord encountered the consequence of humanities sin and made intercession, thus providing the means of reconciliation.

 

"Elsewhere the Hiphil of פָגַע (paga’) means “to intercede verbally” (Jer 15:11; 36:25) or “to intervene militarily” (Isa 59:16), but neither nuance fits here. Apparently here the Hiphil is the causative of the normal Qal meaning, “encounter, meet, touch.” The Qal sometimes refers to a hostile encounter or attack; when used in this way the object is normally introduced by the preposition -בְּ (bet, see Josh 2:16; Judg 8:21; 15:12, etc.). Here the causative Hiphil has a double object – the Lord makes “sin” attack “him” (note that the object attacked is introduced by the preposition -בְּ. In their sin the group was like sheep who had wandered from God’s path. They were vulnerable to attack; the guilt of their sin was ready to attack and destroy them. But then the servant stepped in and took the full force of the attack."

Yes, this is the NET Bible footnote 18 for Isaiah 53:6. But, once again Archangel, says these folks do not understand the meaning of the word. I kid you not.

 

You would have no way to know whether or no he was right or wrong, and why.

The Archangel

 

Let's be perfectly fair here: I've said almost nothing about other people's understanding of the word פָגַע. So that's a Red Herring serving as a bit of an Ad Hominem. I have, however, pointed out both repeatedly and accurately that you have no understanding of the word פָגַע in this context. Your lack of understanding has been demonstrated even in your sources. You have no way to evaluate what they say and all you can do is take their words at face value. As is evident, you cannot evaluate their claims or mine, because you have no grasp of Hebrew. So, you are left with only what you prefer rather than a pursuit of truth.

The Archangel

 

Also... again to be fair... the "Constable's Notes" section of the NET Bible site says this about Isaiah 53:6:

But Yahweh would cause the consequences of our natural sheep-like tendencies to fall on the Servant. Rather than every person having to bear the consequences of sin himself or herself, as Job’s friends argued he or she must, God would make His Servant suffer for the iniquity of all sinners (cf. Lev. 16; 2 Cor. 5:21; 1 Pet. 2:22-25). (Emphasis mine)
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It would seem the Constable's Notes section references it correctly. So, you're only giving information that seems to support your ideas rather than giving the full scoop.

The Archangel

 

Since you seem to like sources...

*HIPHIL—(1) causat, of Kal No. 1, a, to cause anything to fall upon any one. Isa. 53:6, הִפְגִּיעַ בּוֹ אֵת עֲוֹן כֻּלָּנוּ “he caused to fall upon him the iniquity of us all”.

Wilhelm Gesenius and Samuel Prideaux Tregelles, Gesenius’ Hebrew and Chaldee Lexicon to the Old Testament Scriptures (Bellingham, WA: Logos Bible Software, 2003), 666.​

*The verb pāgaʿ appears forty-four times in the OT with the above range of meanings. The two basic meanings of the Hiphil are (1) “to intercede” (Isa 53:12; 59:16; Jer 15:11; 36:25); and (2) “to lay, burden” (Isa 53:6, “the Lord has ‘laid’ upon him all our iniquity”).

Victor P. Hamilton, “1731 פָּגַע,” ed. R. Laird Harris, Gleason L. Archer Jr., and Bruce K. Waltke, Theological Wordbook of the Old Testament (Chicago: Moody Press, 1999), 715.​

*The Septuagint uses παραδίδωμι for פָגַע in Isaiah 53:6. παραδίδωμι is used "as a legal technical term for passing someone along in the judicial process hand over, turn over, deliver up"

Timothy Friberg, Barbara Friberg, and Neva F. Miller, Analytical Lexicon of the Greek New Testament, Baker’s Greek New Testament Library (Grand Rapids, MI: Baker Books, 2000), 295.​

*Hiph. 1. cause to light upon, Pf. 3 ms. הִפְגִּיעַ c. acc. rei + ב pers. Is 53:6.

Francis Brown, Samuel Rolles Driver, and Charles Augustus Briggs, Enhanced Brown-Driver-Briggs Hebrew and English Lexicon (Oxford: Clarendon Press, 1977), 803.​

*So what has happened? The consequences have fallen on the Servant. This is not accidental; the text says explicitly that God has made this happen. What a mystery! The conventional thought of the day said that if a person suffered it was because God was bringing his iniquity on him (Num. 32:23; Ps. 40:13 [Eng. 12]). Here God has made this person suffer for the iniquity of “all of us.” Who can this person be?

John N. Oswalt, The Book of Isaiah, Chapters 40–66, The New International Commentary on the Old Testament (Grand Rapids, MI: Wm. B. Eerdmans Publishing Co., 1998), 389. (Emphasis mine)​

*The Hebrew verb paga‘ means “to meet” “come upon” (cf. Exod. 23:4), often in either the sense of entreat (e.g., Gen 23:8) or encounter with hostility (e.g., Exod. 5:3). Thus, in the causative stem, the verb means “to cause x to come upon y” as it does in Isaiah 53:6: “and Yahweh caused the (הִפְגִּיעַ אֵת) iniquity … to come upon (ב) him.

John D. Meade, Part 4: Who Does the Servant Intercede For? (available from: Part 4: Who Does the Servant Intercede For? by John Meade Accessed 31 July 2022).​

The Archangel

 

Yet another claim, but since this poster often makes well documented false claims, pay no attention.

 

LOL, once again this poster is unable to admit error. Instead he pontificates on my qualifications based on his lack of validity in post after post. He falsely claimed that the Hebrew word translated as "laid" did not mean encounter. But scholar after scholar says that it does!!

 

LOL, this quote fully supports the view presented: "The Hebrew word translated as "laid" means to encounter or make intercession. So the Lord encountered the consequence of humanities sin and made intercession, thus providing the means of reconciliation." BTW, since Christ suffered the consequence of "the iniquity of ALL sinners" Christ died as a ransom for all.

 

You seem to have missed this post:

The Archangel

 

Now you call me a liar? Really!? Your lack of understanding does not mean my claims are false. You actually have no way to know whether they are true or false. All you can do is say "My guy says." You have no clue whether or not he is right.

The Archangel