Only Those Whom the Father Draws to Christ

[Van]

The Greek word is ἕλκω. According to Strong's, it means "drag".

Non-responsive answer!!!!
I did see once again the regurgitation of the literal rather than metaphoric meaning of draw. The meaning is attract, not drag.
See Strong's!!!!

2. metaphorically, to draw by inward power, lead, impel: John 6:44 (so in Greek also; as ἐπιθυμίας... ἑλκουσης ἐπὶ ἡδονάς, Plato, Phaedr., p. 238 a.; ὑπὸ τῆς ἡδονῆς ἑλκόμενοι, Aelian h. a. 6, 31; likewise 4 Macc. 14:13; 15:8 (4 Macc 15:11). trahit sua quemque voluptas, Vergil, ecl. 2, 65); πάντας ἑλκύσω πρὸς ἐμαυτόν, I by my moral, my spiritual, influence will win over to myself the hearts of all, John 12:32. Cf. Meyer on John 6:44; [Trench, § 21, Compare: ἐξέλκω.]​

 

[KenH]

impel

The word "impel" means to force.

People give up all kinds of things, but when it comes to the idea of their "free will" they will cling to it, regardless of the spiritual consequences for them. It reminds me of what John Milton has Satan say in Paradise Lost: "Better to reign in hell than serve in heav'n".

 

[Silverhair]

What people dont realize is that the drawing donr either by the Father Jn 6:44 or the Son Jn 12:32 it is the fruit of the New Birth. Its not the natural man dead in sin, that is being drawn, but its the New man with the new heart, mind, will and affections for the Spiritual things of God. The drawing is actually God causing us to walk in the way of obedience by His Spirit Ezk 36:26-27

26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.

27 And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.

What is clear to everyone is that you abuse scripture in the hope it will fit your errant theology.

 

[Van]

The word "impel" means to force.

People give up all kinds of things, but when it comes to the idea of their "free will" they will cling to it, regardless of the spiritual consequences for them. It reminds me of what John Milton has Satan say in Paradise Lost: "Better to reign in hell than serve in heav'n".

Why are you wasting posts denying the metaphorical meaning of draw as "win over" not compel.
You are the one who cited Strong's!!

2. metaphorically, to draw by inward power, lead, impel: John 6:44 (so in Greek also; as ἐπιθυμίας... ἑλκουσης ἐπὶ ἡδονάς, Plato, Phaedr., p. 238 a.; ὑπὸ τῆς ἡδονῆς ἑλκόμενοι, Aelian h. a. 6, 31; likewise 4 Macc. 14:13; 15:8 (4 Macc 15:11). trahit sua quemque voluptas, Vergil, ecl. 2, 65); πάντας ἑλκύσω πρὸς ἐμαυτόν, I by my moral, my spiritual, influence will win over to myself the hearts of all, John 12:32. Cf. Meyer on John 6:44; [Trench, § 21, Compare: ἐξέλκω.]​

 

[Brightfame52]

Which is it. We are still dead when Christ raises us (making us alive which is true) or we are not dead as scripture says when we hear the gospel.

John 5:25
“Truly, truly, I say to you, a time is coming and even now has arrived, when the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God, and those who hear will live.

Why is it so hard for some to admit scripture actually means what it says, and it does not say the non-dead - regenerated will hear...

That rewrite is Falselogy...

I just stated which is it. The dead cant hear naturally, its by a miracle of God.

 

[Brightfame52]

Yet another false assertion devoid of biblical support, thus a man-made assertion of Falselogy.

Scripture says all who behold Christ high and lifted up (dying for them on the cross) will be drawn to Him. Scripture indicates we are drawn meaning attracted by God's lovingkindness.

To equate drawn with regenerated is to actually redefine two words to create the false doctrine of Falselogy.

Nothing false about it, drawing is the impartation of Spiritual life, the New Birth.

 

[Van]

I just stated which is it. The dead cant hear naturally, its by a miracle of God.

Again, yet another false claim to defend a prior false claim. Falselogy is defended by an endless stream of false claims.

Here is the basic biblical truth, we love God because we beheld that God first loved us. But it our love for God that motivates and controls and compels our behavior to serve Christ. Recall "if you love Me, you will keep My commandments?" (John 14:15)

 

[Van]

Nothing false about it, drawing is the impartation of Spiritual life, the New Birth.

As I said, an endless string of false claims with no revelent verses of support.

Drawing used metaphorically in John 6:44 and John 12:32 refers to attraction due to God's display of loving kindness.

And spiritually dead lost people can learn of God's lovingkindness through His revelation. John 5:25

 

[KenH]

Why are you wasting posts denying the metaphorical meaning of draw as "win over" not compel

Why are you clinging to your idea of "free will". Why won't you trust God to save you? Why do you insist that you are in control of being saved?

 

[Van]

Why are you clinging to your idea of "free will". Why won't you trust God to save you? Why do you insist that you are in control of being saved?

Yet another change of subject coupled with another material false statement. Do I advocate "free will?" No quote will be forth coming as the claim is another falsehood in the string. What is my view, does "Limited Spiritual Ability" ring a bell?"

 

[Brightfame52]

What is clear to everyone is that you abuse scripture in the hope it will fit your errant theology.

Whats clear is that you dont have a clue what drawing entails, its a New Spiritual Life ! A New Inner Man, Spiritual and not carnal.

 

[KenH]

Yet another diversion. If the link contains something pertinent, quote it, I will not charge you with Plagiarism.

It wouldn't be plagarism as I wrote the post. I am not going to repeat arguments so recently debated by posting all the same stuff again when a link will suffice for any reasonable person.

 

[Van]

It wouldn't be plagarism as I wrote the post. I am not going to repeat arguments so recently debated by posting all the same stuff again when a link will suffice for any reasonable person.

So I was right and JOJ and the other guy was wrong.

 

[KenH]

What is my view, does "Limited Spiritual Ability" ring a bell?"

Subterfuge for "free will-ism". A sewer by any other name still stinks.

 

[Brightfame52]

Again, yet another false claim to defend a prior false claim. Falselogy is defended by an endless stream of false claims.

Here is the basic biblical truth, we love God because we beheld that God first loved us. But it our love for God that motivates and controls and compels our behavior to serve Christ. Recall "if you love Me, you will keep My commandments?" (John 14:15)

Its hilarious that you cant understand that raising someone from the dead isnt a miracle of God. Let me ask you, When Jesus spoke to the dead Lazarus, when Lazarus heard His voice, was it a Miracle of God or No ?

 

[Van]

I did see once again the regurgitation of the literal rather than metaphoric meaning of draw. The metaphorical meaning is attract, not drag.

 

[KenH]

So I was right and JOJ and the other guy was wrong.

 

[Van]

Subterfuge for "free will-ism". A sewer by any other name still stinks.

On one side we have exhaustive determinists, claiming our every thought and action was predetermined by God. This view is openly endorsed by Hyper-Calvinist, and perhaps secretly held by some main-stream Calvinists. However, on the other side are the majority of professing Christians, who believe we are "free" to choose whatever we fancy. Buried in this group are some fifth columnists claiming we can only "fancy" the dark side.

Lying between these two canards is biblical truth.

The biblical truth is that fallen humanity has limited autonomous will. We can choose what we fancy, but unless God has revealed His good news, we cannot choose to trust in it. Thus our will is obviously limited to what we have experienced or imagined.

Next we are predisposed in ways that curtail the likelihood of choosing to follow God's will. For example, if given the choice between self preservation and doing the right thing, we would tend to save ourselves. This is not a hard limit but an aggregate limit.

 

[Van]

Its hilarious that you cant understand that raising someone from the dead isnt a miracle of God. Let me ask you, When Jesus spoke to the dead Lazarus, when Lazarus heard His voice, was it a Miracle of God or No ?

It is amazing why you think misrepresenting my views is God honoring.
\
Did I say being regenerated spiritually, being made alive spiritually was not a miracle. Nope - so yet another false charge.

Did I say those physically dead are able to respond to the gospel offer? Nope, Luke 16 teaches the exact opposite, the opportunity dies with physical death.

 

[Brightfame52]

It is amazing why you think misrepresenting my views is God honoring.
\
Did I say being regenerated spiritually, being made alive spiritually was not a miracle. Nope - so yet another false charge.

Did I say those physically dead are able to respond to the gospel offer? Nope, Luke 16 teaches the exact opposite, the opportunity dies with physical death.

You said the dead can hear and quoted Jn 5:25

25 Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live.

Did you not know that Jesus here is speaking about a miracle ? Not something men naturally do. Do you believe men naturally hear when they are dead ? Next time you go to a funeral or see a corpse, speak to it to see if it hears you lol