Featured Born Dead

Austin remember you have to look at the context of the verses if you wish to understand it.

Joh 5:23 that all should honor the Son just as they honor the Father. He who does not honor the Son does not honor the Father who sent Him.
Joh 5:24 "Most assuredly, I say to you, he who hears My word and believes in Him who sent Me has everlasting life, and shall not come into judgment, but has passed from death into life.
Joh 5:25 Most assuredly, I say to you, the hour is coming, and now is, when the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God; and those who hear will live.
Joh 5:26 For as the Father has life in Himself, so He has granted the Son to have life in Himself,
Joh 5:27 and has given Him authority to execute judgment also, because He is the Son of Man.
Joh 5:28 Do not marvel at this; for the hour is coming in which all who are in the graves will hear His voice
Joh 5:29 and come forth—those who have done good, to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil, to the resurrection of condemnation.

Actually the context shows that your understanding of the verse is wrong. It is a universal call and those that hear and respond will be saved those that reject will be condemned. Man gets to make the choice, that is unless you want to accuse God of being the one that makes the men do evil.

 

Well since only God can save and He has chosen to save those that trust in His son "he who hears My word and believes in Him who sent Me" that would indeed put all the power and authority regarding salvation in Christ hands.

 

Do you have a different bible than mine? You must have one of those special Calvinist versions.
Rom 10:9 because if you confess with your lips that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.
Rom 10:10 For one believes with the heart and so is justified, and one confesses with the mouth and so is saved.

Eph 1:13 In him you also, when you had heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and had believed in him, were marked with the seal of the promised Holy Spirit;

Rom 10:13 For, "Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord shall be saved."

The bible says we have to believe before one is saved not after as your Calvinist theology has it.

 

Where does God say "I chose only those who first chose me by trusting me."???

Do you just openly ignore that God made us alive, even while we were still dead?

When you are dead, tell me how you will hear God?

 

Just another example of you ignoring scripture. Logically since we are all dead in sin and those that hear and respond to the gospel message must then be made alive by God, would you not say that He made us alive while we were still dead. Being separated from God spiritually means we are dead in sin not dead like a corpse as Calvinists think. Ephesians 2:8-9, Romans 10:9-10, Romans 10:13 Austin you have to start trusting the bible. Scriptural Authority not Calvinist authority.

 

It means we do not respond until the voice of God makes us alive.

Silverhair, your "God helps those who help themselves" theology is unbiblical.

 

Well since Martin and you do not seem to trust the bible but rather your Calvinism that really says a lot. I quote scripture and you say I am unbiblical that's funny or rather it's sad.
What is really sad is that Martin says he is a minister and he does not even understand the bible and actually denies scripture as he agreed with your comment.



Rom 10:13 For "WHOEVER CALLS ON THE NAME OF THE LORD SHALL BE SAVED."
Rom 10:14 How then shall they call on Him in whom they have not believed? And how shall they believe in Him of whom they have not heard? And how shall they hear without a preacher?

Note the order Paul describes here.
1) The saved are those who call on the name of the Lord.
2) They call because they believe.
3) They believe because they heard.
4) They heard because a preacher shared the Gospel.


The Gospel is preached, people hear it, believe it, they call on the Lord and are saved. Sorry if that doesn’t fit into the Calvinist philosophical view.
Calvinist view, saved and then given faith. Biblical view, have faith so they can be saved. John 5:24-25

I am not sure how much clearer the Holy Spirit could have made it or perhaps you and Martin think you know better than God how people can come to faith.

I will continue to trust the bible while you and Martin continue to trust your Calvinism. Remind me again, what was it Paul said about those that preach another gospel.

 

Why do you think that any Calvinist would deny this? I believe it all! However, it does not alter the fact that had God not, in His mercy, opened my heart to believe, I would still be resisting to this day, because '....The natural man does not receive the things of the Spirit of God' and 'it is not of him who wills, nor of him who runs, but of God who shows mercy.'

BTW, you give me too much glory; I am not a church minister, I am an elder and I share in the preaching ministry in the church as well as preaching in other small churches in the area from time to time.

 

This is an open and outright false statement from you and it certainly says a lot..

Silverhair, you certainly trust your "God helps those who help themselves" theology. Neither Martin nor I subscribe to that theology.

 

I love how Jesus gives us the interpretation to Romans 10, which some people here seem incapable of grasping. I suppose it's because they love themselves more than anything else.

*Romans 10:12-14*

For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek; for the same Lord is Lord of all, bestowing his riches on all who call on him. For “everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.” How then will they call on him in whom they have not believed? And how are they to believe in him of whom they have never heard? And how are they to hear without someone preaching?

*John 10:25-30*
Jesus answered them, “I told you, and you do not believe. The works that I do in my Father’s name bear witness about me, but you do not believe because you are not among my sheep. My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me. I give them eternal life, and they will never perish, and no one will snatch them out of my hand. My Father, who has given them to me,is greater than all, and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father’s hand. I and the Father are one.”

 

The common phenomenon of belief in God's Christ prior to be being born from God.

 

Martin you are letting your Calvinism control that way you understand scripture. You look at one verse and ignore all that ones that contradict your view. These verses Ephesians 2:8-9, Romans 10:9-10, Romans 10:13 all show that natural man can trust in God and you ignore them. You on one hand say you agree with these verses then on the other hand show that you do not.

When taken in the overall context of Paul's writing we see that while the natural man tends to reject the things of the Spirit of God it does not mean that he can not accept them and in fact God expects man to do so and will be held responsible for not doing so. When you consider that the Holy Spirit convicts man of their sin you have to ask why bother if man can not do anything except wait for God to make him believe.

One cannot simply come to Christ by force of will, nor can we do enough good deeds to earn our way. The only way is to humble ourselves before God and turn to Jesus in faith. We have to admit that we are sinners, this is the work of the Holy Spirit John 16:8. We will be saved on the basis of our faith, Ephesians 2:8 therefore our faith precedes our salvation. This is in contradistinction to Calvinism that says we have to be saved before we are given faith.

Then even as an elder you will be held to a higher standard. When you deny clear scripture and preach such you will be judged for and by your words

 

Austin how many times have I and others on BB shown you that your understanding of scripture is wrong. I have posted scripture and you have contradicted the clear text in favor of your Calvinist view.

Scripture is the authority not your Calvinism.

 

Austin you are so desperate to prop up you theology that you make really strange comments. You do know that Romans was written after Christ had returned to heaven. And if you are going to give an interpretation of some writing it requires that that writing already exists.

It seems you will go to just about any length to try and support your philosophy.

 

I don't need a prop for my theology. God's word shows me without any need for any outside documents.

I provided Jesus direct words which show us what Paul means in Romans 10. Now, you can either accept it or reject it. That's on you, Silverhair.

 

So you saying God the Holy Spirit got it wrong?

Rom 10:8 But what does it say? "THE WORD IS NEAR YOU, IN YOUR MOUTH AND IN YOUR HEART" (that is, the word of faith which we preach):
Rom 10:9 that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved.
Rom 10:10 For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
Rom 10:11 For the Scripture says, "WHOEVER BELIEVES ON HIM WILL NOT BE PUT TO SHAME."
Rom 10:12 For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek, for the same Lord over all is rich to all who call upon Him.
Rom 10:13 For "WHOEVER CALLS ON THE NAME OF THE LORD SHALL BE SAVED."
Rom 10:14 How then shall they call on Him in whom they have not believed? And how shall they believe in Him of whom they have not heard? And how shall they hear without a preacher?

Rom 10:17 So then faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.
Rom 10:18 But I say, have they not heard? Yes indeed: "THEIR SOUND HAS GONE OUT TO ALL THE EARTH, AND THEIR WORDS TO THE ENDS OF THE WORLD."

Austin your philosophy is blinding you to the truths of scripture. Scriptural Authority should be your guide not calvinism. Read the text do not read into the text.