Conditional election.

[AustinC]

The scripture for the names being already written is here:
*Hebrews 9:15-17*

Therefore he is the mediator of a new covenant, so that those who are called may receive the promised eternal inheritance, since a death has occurred that redeems them from the transgressions committed under the first covenant. For where a will is involved, the death of the one who made it must be established. For a will takes effect only at death, since it is not in force as long as the one who made it is alive.

The writer tells us that a will (covenant) was already created. When Jesus died, the inheritance was given and all who are written into that will receive their inheritance.

This means the election is indeed before the foundation of the world. It means God foreknew precisely because God has already elected and chosen.

There is the exegesis. It's in the text exactly as the speaker to the Hebrews expressed it.

@37818 you found God's Covenant will being executed at the cross funny. I have no idea how you find God giving us an inheritance funny

 

[37818]

Every elect was chosen before the foundation of the world. The election and choosing are individual and happened at the same time. I truly don't see how you create a distinction that isn't there.

So unless you can show two things, you do not know anything of the sort. What two things? Why I make the distinction. And why that distinct isn't really there.

 

[Van]

Was every elect INDIVIDUAL chosen before the foundation of the world? Ephesians 1:4 refers to those who had been individually chosen during their lifetime as being chosen "in Him" before creation. But all that means is Logos was chosen to be the Lamb of God before creation and therefore everyone that God's chosen Redeemer would redeem was chosen corporately when God chose Christ individually.

Folks, see 2 Thessalonians 2:13, where individuals are chosen through faith in the truth. Or James 2:5 where individuals are chosen who love God and are therefore heirs of the kingdom promised to those who love God.

 

[Brightfame52]

2 Peter 1:5-10, ". . . giving all diligence, add to your faith . . . diligence to make your calling and election sure: . . ."

Then thats works. Unless you mean by your faith, the faith given one in new birth. If you mean your faith before new birth, its works !

 

[Brightfame52]

37818

but God's choosing His who will become His elect

How and when will one become Gods elect ?

 

[AustinC]

So unless you can show two things, you do not know anything of the sort. What two things? Why I make the distinction. And why that distinct isn't really there.

This has been discussed in another thread. @Martin Marprelate showed you the Greek words and why you are wrong. Yet, here you are, still denying what the text obviously tells us. Therefore, it is you who is attempting to split a hair that God never split.
Honestly, you have been shown this more than once and you are belligerent in refusing to accept what God has done.

God individually elected and chose us before the foundation of the world. Scripture shows you this, yet you are in denial.

 

[AustinC]

Was every elect INDIVIDUAL chosen before the foundation of the world? Ephesians 1:4 refers to those who had been individually chosen during their lifetime as being chosen "in Him" before creation. But all that means is Logos was chosen to be the Lamb of God before creation and therefore everyone that God's chosen Redeemer would redeem was chosen corporately when God chose Christ individually.

Folks, see 2 Thessalonians 2:13, where individuals are chosen through faith in the truth. Or James 2:5 where individuals are chosen who love God and are therefore heirs of the kingdom promised to those who love God.

No. Your interpretation here is just awful.

 

[AustinC]

37818



How and when will one become Gods elect ?

Great question.
I anticipate the answer to be..."foreknowledge" which becomes a loop that refuses to actually address your question.
It seems that some cannot accept the Sovereign election and choosing as something that happened before any of us ever did good or bad (like Jacob and Esau). For some reason, some demand to have the right to choose or reject while God is a passive observer.

 

[37818]

Then thats works. Unless you mean by your faith, the faith given one in new birth. If you mean your faith before new birth, its works !

You are dead wrong. Faith is not a work. Romans 4:5.

 

[37818]

This has been discussed in another thread. @Martin Marprelate showed you the Greek words and why you are wrong. Yet, here you are, still denying what the text obviously tells us. Therefore, it is you who is attempting to split a hair that God never split.
Honestly, you have been shown this more than once and you are belligerent in refusing to accept what God has done.

God individually elected and chose us before the foundation of the world. Scripture shows you this, yet you are in denial.

You are both in error. You are incapable to show my view and why it is incorrect. You failed to do it.

 

[Silverhair]

This has been discussed in another thread. @Martin Marprelate showed you the Greek words and why you are wrong. Yet, here you are, still denying what the text obviously tells us. Therefore, it is you who is attempting to split a hair that God never split.
Honestly, you have been shown this more than once and you are belligerent in refusing to accept what God has done.

God individually elected and chose us before the foundation of the world. Scripture shows you this, yet you are in denial.

Calvinism shows the calvinist that but the bible does not, you have been shown that a number of times but you refuse to accept what the bible says.

 

[Silverhair]

37818



How and when will one become Gods elect ?

Eph 1:13 In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise,

Rom 10:9 that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved.
Rom 10:10 For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

Rom 10:17 So then faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

Rom 10:13 For "WHOEVER CALLS ON THE NAME OF THE LORD SHALL BE SAVED."

 

[37818]

37818



How and when will one become Gods elect ?

When God elects. Matthew 22:14, ". . . For many are called, but few are chosen. . . ." Few are elect.

 

[AustinC]

When God elects. Matthew 22:14, ". . . For many are called, but few are chosen. . . ." Few are elect.

We have gone over this, 37.You are really not grasping what Jesus is saying.

The general call of reconciliation goes out to as many people as we can talk with, but those whom God wrote in his Covenant Will are a particular people whom he chose before the foundation of the world.

In Matthew 22 we see one person attempting to join by his free will and he is thrown out into darkness because the King never gave the man the royal garment.

I'm not sure how you are missing this.

 

[AustinC]

You are both in error. You are incapable to show my view and why it is incorrect. You failed to do it.

Incorrect. It has been shown to you and you have hardened your heart.

 

[AustinC]

You are dead wrong. Faith is not a work. Romans 4:5.

Correct, but your version of election makes it a work.

 

[Silverhair]

Then thats works. Unless you mean by your faith, the faith given one in new birth. If you mean your faith before new birth, its works !

So you think that the Holy Spirit {God} got it wrong. Oh the arrogance of you.

Rom 10:9 that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved.
Rom 10:10 For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

Rom 10:13 For "WHOEVER CALLS ON THE NAME OF THE LORD SHALL BE SAVED."
Rom 10:14 How then shall they call on Him in whom they have not believed? And how shall they believe in Him of whom they have not heard? And how shall they hear without a preacher?

Eph 1:13 In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise,

 

[AustinC]

If Silverhair is saying anything to me, I have placed him on ignore due to his awful philosophy of God.

 

[Silverhair]

This has been discussed in another thread. @Martin Marprelate showed you the Greek words and why you are wrong. Yet, here you are, still denying what the text obviously tells us. Therefore, it is you who is attempting to split a hair that God never split.
Honestly, you have been shown this more than once and you are belligerent in refusing to accept what God has done.

God individually elected and chose us before the foundation of the world. Scripture shows you this, yet you are in denial.

There you go reading into the text again. Context is not your friend Austin. But you would not know that as you ignore context.

 

[Silverhair]

Great question.
I anticipate the answer to be..."foreknowledge" which becomes a loop that refuses to actually address your question.
It seems that some cannot accept the Sovereign election and choosing as something that happened before any of us ever did good or bad (like Jacob and Esau). For some reason, some demand to have the right to choose or reject while God is a passive observer.

Jacob and Esau in Rom 9 is dealing with service not salvation but you ignore that as it does not fit your calvinism.