Conditional election.

[Silverhair]

We can look back on the past couple threads on this topic. Your view of election and choosing is unorthodox and lacking any scholarly credibility.

Your view of election and choosing is unorthodox and lacking any scholarly credibility. Many have pointed out your errors yet you still hold to your fail theology.

 

[37818]

The fact that the man tried to get in but the King never gave him a garment is the key. "Not all are chosen." You can't "accept" Jesus and expect to be at the wedding. God must choose you as a guest at the wedding feast. He must give you the garment.

Still giving your interpretation.
Actually "few are chosen." Aka elect.

 

[AustinC]

Still giving your interpretation.
Actually "few are chosen." Aka elect.

Correct, few have been (are) chosen even though many have been called to reconciliation. This shows you that Jesus was telling you the truth when he said:

I am the good shepherd. I know my own and my own know me, just as the Father knows me and I know the Father; and I lay down my life for the sheep. And I have other sheep that are not of this fold. I must bring them also, and they will listen to my voice. So there will be one flock, one shepherd. For this reason the Father loves me, because I lay down my life that I may take it up again. No one takes it from me, but I lay it down of my own accord. I have authority to lay it down, and I have authority to take it up again. This charge I have received from my Father.”

Jesus answered them, “I told you, and you do not believe. The works that I do in my Father’s name bear witness about me, but you do not believe because you are not among my sheep. My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me. I give them eternal life, and they will never perish, and no one will snatch them out of my hand. My Father, who has given them to me,is greater than all, and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father’s hand. I and the Father are one.”
~ John 10:14-18, 25-30

At some point you will need to trust Jesus chose you and elected you before you ever existed or did anything.

 

[37818]

Correct, few have been (are) chosen even though many have been called to reconciliation. This shows you that Jesus was telling you the truth when he said:

I am the good shepherd. I know my own and my own know me, just as the Father knows me and I know the Father; and I lay down my life for the sheep. And I have other sheep that are not of this fold. I must bring them also, and they will listen to my voice. So there will be one flock, one shepherd. For this reason the Father loves me, because I lay down my life that I may take it up again. No one takes it from me, but I lay it down of my own accord. I have authority to lay it down, and I have authority to take it up again. This charge I have received from my Father.”

Jesus answered them, “I told you, and you do not believe. The works that I do in my Father’s name bear witness about me, but you do not believe because you are not among my sheep. My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me. I give them eternal life, and they will never perish, and no one will snatch them out of my hand. My Father, who has given them to me,is greater than all, and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father’s hand. I and the Father are one.”
~ John 10:14-18, 25-30

At some point you will need to trust Jesus chose you and elected you before you ever existed or did anything.

John 3:36, ". . . He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him. . . ."

 

[AustinC]

John 3:36, ". . . He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him. . . ."

A great verse. It has nothing to do with your argument regarding choosing and election, but it's a great verse.

Let me ask you, 37, do you read a verse all by itself and create a doctrine from it, or do you read all the Bible and see doctrine in all scripture?

 

[37818]

A great verse. It has nothing to do with your argument regarding choosing and election, but it's a great verse.

Let me ask you, 37, do you read a verse all by itself and create a doctrine from it, or do you read all the Bible and see doctrine in all scripture?

Maybe not the way you think I should. I do cross reference texts.

Now you did seem to make the following personal, saying "you."

At some point you will need to trust Jesus chose you and elected you before you ever existed or did anything.

That being your interpretation on how you think it works. Interesting though, trusting Jesus precedes that election in your own argument.

 

[AustinC]

Maybe not the way you think I should. I do cross reference texts.

Now you did seem to make the following personal, saying "you."

That being your interpretation on how you think it works. Interesting though, trusting Jesus precedes that election in your own argument.

So you just read a verse and then cross reference a word without ever sitting down and reading the book as a whole?

 

[37818]

So you just read a verse and then cross reference a word without ever sitting down and reading the book as a whole?

So what? The immediate contexts and their cross references still need to be understood. They must agree on the whole. 1 Thessalonians 1:4, 2 Peter 1:10.

 

[AustinC]

So what? The immediate contexts and their cross references still need to be understood. They must agree on the whole. 1 Thessalonians 1:4, 2 Peter 1:10.

They agree as a whole, if you read the whole. I showed you how Paul tells you that the persons in 1 Thessalonians 4 are the chosen. I showed you how Peter makes his point in his letter to the churches in Northern Turkey.
Honestly, what is it that you cannot tolerate about God electing you before the foundation of the world? What makes it so you look for ways around God Sovereignly choosing you before you ever did anything (like Jacob and Esau)? I honestly don't understand what is bothering you.

 

[37818]

They agree as a whole, if you read the whole. I showed you how Paul tells you that the persons in 1 Thessalonians 4 are the chosen. I showed you how Peter makes his point in his letter to the churches in Northern Turkey.
Honestly, what is it that you cannot tolerate about God electing you before the foundation of the world? What makes it so you look for ways around God Sovereignly choosing you before you ever did anything (like Jacob and Esau)? I honestly don't understand what is bothering you.

Chosen aka election as in 2 Peter 1:10. That ties 1 Thessalonians 4:17 to Matthew 24:31.

 

[AustinC]

Chosen aka election as in 2 Peter 1:10. That ties 1 Thessalonians 4:17 to Matthew 24:31.

For the life of me, I don't know what hair splitting you are attempting to make from these verses?
Honestly, what is it about God electing you before the foundation of the world, before you could do right or wrong, that bothers you?
Do you wish God had left you to your own path and abandoned you to your self? I honestly don't understand why you cannot accept God's election and choosing of you as though God had violated you. Honestly, what is the real problem you are struggling with cause I just don't get what you think is a problem.

 

[37818]

. . . what is it about God electing you before the foundation of the world, . . .

You seem to have no clue. God in His omniscience is not at issue. God's choosing is one event before the foundation of the world. Because the elect become God's elect in time. And the Scripture makes these distincts. You are the one having the trouble hearing this. So unless you can understand what I "think" I understand in Scripture, how can you show me from Scripture my "error" you suppose me to have?

 

[AustinC]

You seem to have no clue. God in His omniscience is not at issue. God's choosing is one event before the foundation of the world.

Because the elect become God's elect in time. And the Scripture makes these distincts.

You are the one having the trouble hearing this. So unless you can understand what I "think" I understand in Scripture, how can you show me from Scripture my "error" you suppose me to have?

I bolded where you are openly wrong. The elect are the elect before the foundation of the world. We were elect/chosen before we ever did anything good or bad, just like Jacob and Esau. Paul tells us about Jacob and Esau so that we understand that God is fully Sovereign in determining his children with zero input from you or me. We are saved and have faith precisely because God ordained it to be so from before the foundation of the world.

You are attempting to split a hair that God has never and will never split.

 

[37818]

I bolded where you are openly wrong. The elect are the elect before the foundation of the world.

The written word of God nowhere teaches that the elections take place before the foundation of the world.

 

[Silverhair]

Some on here do not seem able to grasp what the bible is telling us. God foreknows all those that will come to faith but that does not mean that He causes them to do so. Man is only part of the elect when they are in Christ and the Father places them there because they have met the condition He has set, faith in His son.

The calvinist has made the gospel a secondary thing, it is their election before time that matters. The fact that their view is not biblical does not seem to be of concern to them.

 

[Silverhair]

The written word of God nowhere teaches that the elections take place before the foundation of the world.

Many on here have shown Austin that his view is not biblical but what the bible says has little if any impact on him. He has convinced himself that he has greater insight into scripture.

 

[Martin Marprelate]

The written word of God nowhere teaches that the elections take place before the foundation of the world.

It will be very helpful if you would explain why you believe that 'elect.' 'election' etc. differs in meaning from 'choose,' ' chosen' etc.
Perhaps you feel that you have done so before, but nevertheless it will be helpful if you do it again.

 

[37818]

Many on here have shown Austin that his view is not biblical but what the bible says has little if any impact on him. He has convinced himself that he has greater insight into scripture.

Apparently so. He confuses Ephesians 1:4 with the election of the elect.

 

[Marooncat79]

Some on here do not seem able to grasp what the bible is telling us. God foreknows all those that will come to faith but that does not mean that He causes them to do so. Man is only part of the elect when they are in Christ and the Father places them there because they have met the condition He has set, faith in His son.

The calvinist has made the gospel a secondary thing, it is their election before time that matters. The fact that their view is not biblical does not seem to be of concern to them.

Which Greek verb means to mark out before hand in Koine?

I await your response

 

[37818]

It will be very helpful if you would explain why you believe that 'elect.' 'election' etc. differs in meaning from 'choose,' ' chosen' etc.
Perhaps you feel that you have done so before, but nevertheless it will be helpful if you do it again.

As you had pointed out that choosing [as a singular Ephesians 1:4] is the very same choosing by which God elect's his elect [plural in Mark 13:20]. I understand those elected to take place in time for the believers. 1 Thessalonians 1:4 per 2 Peter 1:10, ". . . give diligence to make your calling and election sure: . . ." Otherwise unless it is the believers election in time doing so as instructed would not be possible.