Featured Conditional election.

Does that mean that you are now going to read things in context. It will help you come to a correct understanding of scripture.

 

I don't think you know what the word context means.

 

I already do.

 

Oh I understand but I do question if you do. That seems to be a problem for many calvinists. Proof texting is just that, you grab verses out of context and then wonder why people do not agree with your view.

 

Again, all sinners are not Gods elect, you never heard that from me, and you probably never heard it from anyone else calling themselves a calvinist.

 

Gods choosing makes it so. Were people in Adam before they were born ?

 

Again, I can only witness the truth, I prove my witness with scripture, but its not my job to prove things to your understanding. Only God can give you understanding of scripture truth friend.

 

Your answers are always vague and wishy washy, you act like you afraid to answer questions with firm answers with conviction !

 

Wait! What?

So God chooses before the foundation of the world, but making a choice that predetermines who is saved is not election of who is saved?

Honestly, that is just stupid on your part. Just stupid.

God never expresses what you have asserted. You have literally made this up out of thin air.

The question is...why? Why do you make a distinction that God doesn't make. Why do you need this for your theology?

 

Your theology would require that. We know that all have sinned and since God picked out those sinners before creation then would that not include all sinners? Remember calvinists keep saying God does not look at anything in the person so why would He not pick all or is His choice just arbitrary? In other words just the luck of the draw.

 

You have been shown on a number of posts that your view is in error but you still persist in holding to it. It does not appear that you are trusting in scripture but rather your calvinism.

 

The real question is why do you ignore context. Eph 1:1 tells you who the "us" in verse 4 is but you just refuse to accept what Paul said. The only time that someone is elect is when they are in Christ and since no one was in Christ before creation that shows that your idea of election is full of water.

 

No!

You are completely missing what Peter is saying.

*2 Peter 1:1,3-11*

Simeon Peter, a servant and apostle of Jesus Christ, To those who have obtained a faith of equal standing with ours by the righteousness of our God and Savior Jesus Christ:

His divine power has granted to us all things that pertain to life and godliness, through the knowledge of him who called us to his own glory and excellence, by which he has granted to us his precious and very great promises, so that through them you may become partakers of the divine nature, having escaped from the corruption that is in the world because of sinful desire.

For this very reason, make every effort to supplement your faith with virtue, and virtue with knowledge, and knowledge with self-control, and self-control with steadfastness, and steadfastness with godliness, and godliness with brotherly affection, and brotherly affection with love. For if these qualities are yours and are increasing, they keep you from being ineffective or unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ. For whoever lacks these qualities is so nearsighted that he is blind, having forgotten that he was cleansed from his former sins. Therefore, brothers, be all the more diligent to confirm your calling and election, for if you practice these qualities you will never fall. For in this way there will be richly provided for you an entrance into the eternal kingdom of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.

Peter is telling us that the election already took place before the foundation of the world. He tells in the previous verses that we have obtained it. We confirm it by the supplements that are added.

Honestly, your assertion is not supported by Peter's teaching. In fact, your assertion is destroyed by Peter's teaching. How have you made this mistake? Have you simply not read the letter?

 

What I still don't understand is how election 'in time' does not directly contradict Ephesians 1:4 which very plainly states (as does 2 Thessalonians 2:13) that God's election takes place in eternity.

1 Thes. 1:4. 'Knowing brothers, your election by God......' How does Paul know? Because Paul's word to them came with great power through the Holy Spirit, and the faith of the Thessalonians came to them with much assurance (v.5).
2 Peter 1:10. 'Therefore, brethren, be even more diligent to make your calling and election sure, for if you do these things you will never stumble.' What are 'these things'? They are the things Peter commands in vs. 5-7. How can someone be sure that he is a child of God? Well to be sure, by the witness of the Spirit (Romans 8:16), but it is possible to be deceived in such matters (Matthew 7:21-23). If it is our delight to serve God and to keep His commandments (cf. 1 John 2:3-4) and it upsets us when we fall short, that is a clear sign that the Spirit is working within us and that we are elect.
But none of this contradicts Ephesians 1:4 etc. that believers are the chosen of God from eternity.
I hope that helps, but I don't expect it will.

 

You must not be aware of what the doctrines of Grace state, that Christs death and election is limited to some, not all without exception.

 

I say likewise, scripture has showned you in error, grave error at that.

 

See, you cant even follow a simple discourse.