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Featured The Atonement of Christ: What did it REALLY Achieve ?6

Discussion in 'Calvinism & Arminianism Debate' started by Brightfame52, Sep 14, 2022.

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  1. Brightfame52

    Brightfame52 Well-Known Member

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    silverhair

    Correct, thats Justification before God.

    Yes and I cant believe you are saying this, must be a catch to it !

    Ah, now you want to misrepresent what I say. I believe in limited atonement remember ? Christ didn't die for everyone. So how do you get me setting forth a universal view ? Thats dishonesty and if you keep it up, I wont respond to you anymore.
     
    #81 Brightfame52, Sep 24, 2022
  2. Brightfame52

    Brightfame52 Well-Known Member

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    silverhair

    Lol, friend no disrespect, but you haven't told me anything I dont know already, plus I believe you deny the testimony of the resurrection of Christ since you believe He died for everybody to include them who remain unjustified and going to hell lost.

    Unfortunately I cant say the same for u !

    Unbelief and against Christ. Christs blood Justifies the ungodly Rom 5:9

    9 Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.

    Eph 1:7
    In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace;

    Forgiveness of sins is Salvation/Justification and its in and through His Blood, and those He died for have it.

    False statement

    The risen Christ applies Salvation on them He died for and that gives them trust in Him

    Christ saves, He is the Saviour of His People, because He died for them, shed His Blood for them. Too bad you cant believe in His Blood, because thats what God given Faith does, it trusts in His Blood,
    May God be pleased to give you faith in His Blood today, thats the only way you will believe the Truth my friend.
     
    #82 Brightfame52, Sep 24, 2022
  3. Silverhair

    Silverhair Well-Known Member

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    BF why do you put credit words to me that I did not say that is less than a Christian act. Did you not recognize your own words from post #77.
    All for whom Christ has died has a clean slate before God's Law and Justice, and so the vital application of the healing takes effect, which heals our backsliding in adam, or our turning to our own way Isa 53:6. This healing gives us repentance toward God and Faith in Jesus Christ.

    Those words of yours that I put in bold are why I say you are putting forward a universalist doctrine. You may say you believe in a limited atonement but your post says different.

    Romans 5:6 Christ died for the ungodly
    Romans 5:8 while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us
    Romans 5:10 while we were enemies we were reconciled to God

    1Ti 2:5 For there is one God, and one mediator also between God and men, the man Christ Jesus,
    1Ti 2:6 who gave Himself as a ransom for all, the testimony given at the proper time.
    And why would He do this
    1Ti 2:3 This is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior,
    1Ti 2:4 who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth.

    So BF since you keep saying that all those Christ died for will be healed and you equate being healed to being saved that would make you a universalist according to the bible.

    Good thing God does not think like you do, He has set a condition for salvation
    Eph 1:13 In Him, you also, after listening to the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation—having also believed, you were sealed in Him with the Holy Spirit of promise,

    The same gospel that He tells us we need to believe
    Rom 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel, for it is the power of God for salvation to everyone who believes, to the Jew first and also to the Greek.

    So BF if you are going to quote me then quote me. It really is less than honest to make false statements and you should know better.
     
    #83 Silverhair, Sep 24, 2022
  4. Silverhair

    Silverhair Well-Known Member

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    BF you really like to deny the bible and keep showing your universalist colours. Sad really but it is what you continue to do.
     
    #84 Silverhair, Sep 25, 2022
  5. Brightfame52

    Brightfame52 Well-Known Member

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    Those Christ died for are healed. So since all without exception are healed/saved, then its crystal clear that Christs death is limited to all that are saved/healed. Now if that's universalism to you, its apparent you lack understanding of what I have stated.
     
    #85 Brightfame52, Sep 25, 2022
  6. Brightfame52

    Brightfame52 Well-Known Member

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    You deny the testimony of the resurrection of Christ since you believe sinners He died for, and put away their sins, will still die in their sins and unbelief.
     
    #86 Brightfame52, Sep 25, 2022
  7. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    You confuse who is responsible for remaining in unbelief, do you not? God or man?
     
    #87 37818, Sep 25, 2022
    • Agree Agree x 1
  8. Brightfame52

    Brightfame52 Well-Known Member

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    I dont know what you talking about. Do you believe the testimony of the resurrection of Christ ? Its a testification that those who Christ was delivered up for, was risen again because of their Justification Rom 4:25

    25 Who was delivered for[because of] our offences, and was raised again for[because of] our justification.
     
    #88 Brightfame52, Sep 25, 2022
  9. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    The resurrection demonstrates that Christ had paid for the sins for the whole world. 1 John 2:2, ". . . And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world. . . ."
    1 Timothy 2:3-6, ". . . For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour; Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth. For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus; Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time. . . ."
     
    #89 37818, Sep 25, 2022
    • Agree Agree x 1
  10. Silverhair

    Silverhair Well-Known Member

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    BF you still deny clear scripture that says Christ died for the ungodly sinners which is all of us or do you think there were, at some time in history, people that were not ungodly sinners? Christ is a ransom for all, do you have a different meaning for "all". Webester says this "All" Wholly; completely; entirely. So when you make statements such as you have it just shows that it is not the bible that you follow but rather your calvinist philosophy.

    You are conflating healed with saved and that is not biblical. We are healed of our sin by the blood of Christ but we are saved by His life. If Christ did not rise then we would ALL still be lost.

    1Co 15:13 But if there is no resurrection of the dead, then Christ is not risen.
    1Co 15:14 And if Christ is not risen, then our preaching is empty and your faith is also empty.
    1Co 15:15 Yes, and we are found false witnesses of God, because we have testified of God that He raised up Christ, whom He did not raise up—if in fact the dead do not rise.
    1Co 15:16 For if the dead do not rise, then Christ is not risen.
    1Co 15:17 And if Christ is not risen, your faith is futile; you are still in your sins!

    Rom 4:25 who was delivered up because of our offenses, and was raised because of our justification.

    BF it is obvious that you do not like what the bible says as it shows your theology is in error. But you need to submit yourself to the authority of the bible not your calvinism.
     
    #90 Silverhair, Sep 25, 2022
  11. Silverhair

    Silverhair Well-Known Member

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    Christ died to cover the sins of all men, He was raised again for our salvation. Those that trust in Him will be saved those that reject Him will be lost. That is biblical, your view is not. You are trying to teach another gospel. Just as Paul warned us about, we are to reject such a teaching.
     
    #91 Silverhair, Sep 25, 2022
  12. Brightfame52

    Brightfame52 Well-Known Member

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    So you dont believe that Rom 4:25 shows that the resurrection of Christ verified that them who Christ was delivered up for have been Justified ? Yes or No please
     
    #92 Brightfame52, Sep 25, 2022
  13. Brightfame52

    Brightfame52 Well-Known Member

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    silverhair

    False accusation. The elect who Christ died for were ungodly, unjust 1 Pet 3:18

    For Christ also hath once suffered[unto death] for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:

    Now you deny that Christs death for the ungodly elect #1 healed them, #2 brought them to God.
     
    #93 Brightfame52, Sep 25, 2022
  14. Brightfame52

    Brightfame52 Well-Known Member

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    You spoke of the resurrection of Christ earlier, falsely accused me of not believing in it, but now you are guilty of denying the verification which Christs resurrection provided, that those He died for are Justified Rom 4:25
    25 Who was delivered for our offences, and was raised again for our justification.

    AMP
    who was betrayed and crucified because of our sins, and was raised [from the dead] because of our justification [our acquittal—absolving us of all sin before God].
     
    #94 Brightfame52, Sep 25, 2022
  15. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    I never denied Romans 4:25. Your complex question requires a no. I do not deny Romans 4:25.

    I affirm ". . . Who was delivered for our offences, and was raised again for our justification. . . ." That it requires the general redemption.
     
    #95 37818, Sep 25, 2022
    Last edited: Sep 25, 2022
  16. MrW

    MrW Well-Known Member

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    Christ is the Saviour of all men, specially of them that believe.

    Acts 4:12; John 14:6; Acts 2:21, 16:31.

    All men, because He’s the only Saviour, specially, because:

    His death and resurrection are sufficient for all, but efficient only for believers.
     
    #96 MrW, Sep 25, 2022
    • Winner Winner x 2
  17. Brightfame52

    Brightfame52 Well-Known Member

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    Then you deny the verification of the resurrection of Christ.
     
    #97 Brightfame52, Sep 25, 2022
  18. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    You are crazy.
     
    #98 37818, Sep 25, 2022
  19. Brightfame52

    Brightfame52 Well-Known Member

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    Wasn't sufficient enough to Justify was it ? You dont believe Christs death alone Justified them He died for, right ?
     
    #99 Brightfame52, Sep 25, 2022
  20. Brightfame52

    Brightfame52 Well-Known Member

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    Rom 4:25 doesnt show a general atonement, so you deny the witness of Christ Resurrection that His Death Justified them He died for.
     
    #100 Brightfame52, Sep 25, 2022
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