The Atonement of Christ: What did it REALLY Achieve ?6

[Silverhair]

silverhair



False accusation. The elect who Christ died for were ungodly, unjust 1 Pet 3:18

For Christ also hath once suffered[unto death] for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:

Now you deny that Christs death for the ungodly elect #1 healed them, #2 brought them to God.

BF where do you get this dumb idea of an "ungodly elect". One is only elect when they are in Christ not before. That is just another error of your calvinism.

So BF you do not believe what the bible says. You are so lost in your calvinism that you refuse to trust what the Holy Spirit says. Paul warned that people like you would creep into the church bring false teachings. You may think that is harsh but since you continue to deny scripture what else is one to think.

Your calvimist philosophy, which has blinded you to the truth, denies scripture and attacks the character of God.

The fact that you can or rather will not trust clear scripture is disheartening. How many times must you be shown the truth of scripture before you will accept what the Holy Spirit says. You think you are disagreeing with me but you are wrong you are disagreeing with God.

 

[Silverhair]

You spoke of the resurrection of Christ earlier, falsely accused me of not believing in it, but now you are guilty of denying the verification which Christs resurrection provided, that those He died for are Justified Rom 4:25
25 Who was delivered for our offences, and was raised again for our justification.

AMP
who was betrayed and crucified because of our sins, and was raised [from the dead] because of our justification [our acquittal—absolving us of all sin before God].

BF you just show that you do not even read what I wrote you just react. Did you not read my post # 90. Or is it that you do not understand what I wrote. Christ's blood covers the sins of all men and those that trust in the risen Lord will be saved which is just what Romans 4:25 says. Who {Christ} was delivered up because of our offenses {our sins}, and was raised {made alive } because of {for} our justification {salvation}. Is that to hard a concept for you to grasp?
Your theology has people saved before creation but the bible has them saved after they hear and believe the gospel message. Now which do you think one should think is true, calvinist philosophy or the bible?

Answer me this BF, is the bible your authority? Yes or No.

 

[Silverhair]

You are crazy.

No, BF is not crazy, he is just a deterministic clavinist. He is incapable of looking at scripture without first filtering it through his calvinism. Calvinism is eisegesis to the core.

 

[Silverhair]

Wasn't sufficient enough to Justify was it ? You dont believe Christs death alone Justified them He died for, right ?

Well since Christ died for all the ungodly sinners and not all of those ungodly sinners trusted in the risen Christ Jesus so as to be justified. So you would be right on that point as Christ death did not justify anyone it was His life that justifies.

 

[Silverhair]

Rom 4:25 doesnt show a general atonement, so you deny the witness of Christ Resurrection that His Death Justified them He died for.

And again it is His life that justifies but you seem incapable of grasping that point.

 

[Brightfame52]

silverhair

BF where do you get this dumb idea of an "ungodly elect"

lol, thats a dumb question, from the bible. In case you didn't know, the elect are born into the world as ungodly sinners.

Are you still in denial that Christs death/stripes saved/healed them He died for ? 1 Pet 2:24

24 Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes ye were healed.

 

[Brightfame52]

Well since Christ died for all the ungodly sinners and not all of those ungodly sinners trusted in the risen Christ Jesus so as to be justified. So you would be right on that point as Christ death did not justify anyone it was His life that justifies.

So you deny the Justifying death of Christ and the testification of the resurrection of Christ Rom 4:25

25 Who was delivered for our offences, and was raised again for our justification.

See the resurrection of Christ meant that them He died for are not in their sins 1 Cor 15:17

17 And if Christ be not raised, your faith is vain; ye are yet in your sins.

So since Christ has been raised, ye are not in your sins, and your to believe that isnt in vain,

So this scripture collaborates Rom 4:25

 

[Brightfame52]

And again it is His life that justifies but you seem incapable of grasping that point.

Wrong His Death Justifies, His resurrection to life verifies it. Gods elect were Justified by His Blood/Death Rom 5:9

9 Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.

Isa 53:11

11 He shall see of the travail of his soul, and shall be satisfied: by his knowledge shall my righteous servant justify many; for he shall bear their iniquities.

You deny that Christs Blood Justifies, that's serious unbelief friend.

 

[Silverhair]

silverhair



lol, thats a dumb question, from the bible. In case you didn't know, the elect are born into the world as ungodly sinners.

Are you still in denial that Christs death/stripes saved/healed them He died for ? 1 Pet 2:24

24 Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes ye were healed.

BF we are not elect until we are in Christ so your errant idea of an ungodly elect is only found in your non-biblical view. You keep going back to 1PE 2:24 as if it supports your view. Your lost in your calvinism. You have been shown a number of verses that show the truth and you just ignore them. You do not want to understand the truth you just want people to agree with you.

 

[Silverhair]

So you deny the Justifying death of Christ and the testification of the resurrection of Christ Rom 4:25

25 Who was delivered for our offences, and was raised again for our justification.

See the resurrection of Christ meant that them He died for are not in their sins 1 Cor 15:17

17 And if Christ be not raised, your faith is vain; ye are yet in your sins.

So since Christ has been raised, ye are not in your sins, and your to believe that isnt in vain,

So this scripture collaborates Rom 4:25

BF I will admit I have not run into many people that are as dumb as you are, and I say that in the kindest way. You do not trust the bible so you make up all the false theories that you think will support your view. Get a life BF, start trusting the bible, quite frankly you are starting to sound like a fool.

 

[Silverhair]

Wrong His Death Justifies, His resurrection to life verifies it. Gods elect were Justified by His Blood/Death Rom 5:9

9 Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.

Isa 53:11

11 He shall see of the travail of his soul, and shall be satisfied: by his knowledge shall my righteous servant justify many; for he shall bear their iniquities.

You deny that Christs Blood Justifies, that's serious unbelief friend.

So lets go by your view, Christ's blood justifies the ungodly. And since we are all ungodly that means all are justified by your view so as I said before you are a universalist.

But since we have gone around this a number of times and it does not seem to sink in that you need to trust the bible and not your calvinism I do not have the time to deal with you. But I did note that you did not answer my question of whether you trusted the bible? Yes or No.

But since you keep denying scripture you have actually answered it.

 

[37818]

.Romans 5:9-11, ". . . Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him. For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life. And not only so, but we also joy in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom we have now received the atonement. . . ."

aka the general redemption.

 

[Silverhair]

.Romans 5:9-11, ". . . Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him. For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life. And not only so, but we also joy in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom we have now received the atonement. . . ."

aka the general redemption.

Context Context Context. That seems to be some thing that some on this site forget about. As always hope springs eternal that they will just accept scripture.

 

[Martin Marprelate]

.Romans 5:9-11, ". . . Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him. For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life. And not only so, but we also joy in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom we have now received the atonement. . . ."

aka the general redemption

Who are the 'we' here, mentioned six times? It is Paul himself and 'all who are in Rome, beloved of God, called to be saints' (Romans 1:7). whose faith is spoken of throughout the whole world (v.8).
aka the particular redemption.

 

[37818]

Who are the 'we' here, mentioned six times?

Technically, at the very least the Roman church believers and the Apostle Paul.

It is Paul himself and 'all who are in Rome, beloved of God, called to be saints' (Romans 1:7). whose faith is spoken of throughout the whole world (v.8).
aka the particular redemption.

If solely only a particular redemption then no one today has any Biblical gounds to have any reason to believe Christ had paid for one's sins. The gospel is a fraud without the general redemption being true.

 

[37818]

Context Context Context. That seems to be some thing that some on this site forget about. As always hope springs eternal that they will just accept scripture.

See,

Who are the 'we' here, mentioned six times? It is Paul himself and 'all who are in Rome, beloved of God, called to be saints' (Romans 1:7). whose faith is spoken of throughout the whole world (v.8).
aka the particular redemption.

 

[Martin Marprelate]

Technically, at the very least the Roman church believers and the Apostle Paul.

If solely only a particular redemption then no one today has any Biblical grounds to have any reason to believe Christ had paid for one's sins. The gospel is a fraud without the general redemption being true.

You have stated this several times, but I cannot see any truth in it. I believe in particular redemption and I have assurance of salvation. 'The one who comes to Me I will by no means cast out' (John 6:37). I have come to Christ; He will not cast Me out.

 

[Martin Marprelate]

See,

In case you didn't notice, I was providing the context.

 

[37818]

You have stated this several times, but I cannot see any truth in it. I believe in particular redemption and I have assurance of salvation. 'The one who comes to Me I will by no means cast out' (John 6:37). I have come to Christ; He will not cast Me out.

Did Jesus lie? I do not think so. And I would think you don't either.
Matthew 7:21-23, ". . . Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity. . . ." What do you think the will of God was they didn't do. I think the clue is in verse 22.

 

[37818]

In case you didn't notice, I was providing the context.

That was why I cited you.

Context Context Context. That seems to be some thing that some on this site forget about. As always hope springs eternal that they will just accept scripture.

Those who deny the general redemption.