Election,“For I have not shunned to declare unto you all the counsel of God”

[Martin Marprelate]

Actually Martin the context does help you understand vs 48 in fact we have to use the context if we want to come to understand that verse.
The Greek word for “appointed” or “ordained tassō G5021used in this verse could either be in the middle or passive voice, as both are spelled the same way in Greek. So the only way to understand this verse is by looking at the context [vs 46-48] which as you know contrasts the rejection of the message by the Jews and the acceptance of it by the Gentiles.
They believed," trusted, or were saved, when they believed, after the word was preached, Mark 1:15; Acts of the Apostles 16:31; Romans 1:15-16
It affirms that only those that were convicted by the Holy Spirit that accompanied the apostles' preaching were convicted and believed unto eternal life, 1 John 5:13.

Revelation 3:7 is clear that no one can force their way in to heaven but that is not what Acts 13:46-48 is showing us is it. Those of the gentiles that believed were saved by grace because of their faith. Why do you deny what the context clearly shows us.[/QUOTE]
Context is always important, but it doesn't help you here. The Greek word is tetagmenoi, which is the Perfect Passive Participle of tasso. I don't believe there is any usage of tetagmenoi which is clearly Middle. But the Perfect tense means a once for all completed event in the past. 'As many believed, having been appointed for etrrnal life.' So the appointment comes before the believing. So how would you translate it using the Middle Voice? So as many believed, having appointed themselves to eternal life'? Is that what you believe?

It is clear that no one is saved who doesn't trust in Christ. It is equally clear that no one believes wthout God's election. Both these things have to be held together. There is a very well-known saying which goes back, I think, to Spurgeon, which relates that there is a sign above the door which leads to the kingdom of heaven, saying, Whosoever will may enter.' But having entered, when you look back, you will read on the other side of the door, 'Chosen from before the foundation of the world.' Verse 48 stresses the Divine agency, and that is why 'The disciples were filled with joy and with the Holy Spirit' (verse 52; cf. Luke 10:21)..

BTW, half of Revelation 3:7 says that no one can force his way into heaven, but the other half says that the Triune God, and He alone, brings people in there.

 

[Alan Gross]

You must feel really threatened by what I post on here as you just are so over the top with your silly comments. Are you so foolish that you think one has to be a calvinist before they can worship God? Have you not figured it out yet that I do not dislike calvinists but I do dislike what the calvinist philosophy does to the character of God. As I said before " I am tired of seeing Gods' good name drug through the theological mud."

Now I am sure my comment will upset a number of people on BB but I really have not seen anything regarding calvinism that would cause me to change my view of that theology.

You attribute all scripture that Glorifies God to John Calvin, then dismiss it, as, "a man's".

There has to be an Eternal reason for that.

 

[Silverhair]

You attribute all scripture that Glorifies God to John Calvin, then dismiss it, as, "a man's".

There has to be an Eternal reason for that.

Alan you are really starting to sound really illogical you are throwing out comments that are just off the wall.

 

[Alan Gross]

Alan you are really starting to sound really illogical you are throwing out comments that are just off the wall.

1 Corinthians 2:14
King James Version

14 "But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God:
for they are foolishness unto him:

neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned."

 

[Silverhair]

Context is always important, but it doesn't help you here. The Greek word is tetagmenoi, which is the Perfect Passive Participle of tasso. I don't believe there is any usage of tetagmenoi which is clearly Middle. But the Perfect tense means a once for all completed event in the past. 'As many believed, having been appointed for etrrnal life.' So the appointment comes before the believing. So how would you translate it using the Middle Voice? So as many believed, having appointed themselves to eternal life'? Is that what you believe?

How would I translate vs 48 in the middle voice “all those who set their lives in accordance to the gospel of eternal life believed” which accords well with vs 46 where the Jews had rejected the gospel message. We are told the gospel is the power of God for salvation or do you not believe that is true? Are we to understand, as you would seem to have it, that the gentiles that began to rejoice did so before they believed the gospel message? If so then what were they rejoicing about? Martin you are struggling to much in your attempt to deny context.

It is clear that no one is saved who doesn't trust in Christ. It is equally clear that no one believes wthout God's election. Both these things have to be held together. There is a very well-known saying which goes back, I think, to Spurgeon, which relates that there is a sign above the door which leads to the kingdom of heaven, saying, Whosoever will may enter.' But having entered, when you look back, you will read on the other side of the door, 'Chosen from before the foundation of the world.' Verse 48 stresses the Divine agency, and that is why 'The disciples were filled with joy and with the Holy Spirit' (verse 52; cf. Luke 10:21)..

I like Spurgeon but do not put him on the level of scripture. The bible is clear, hear the gospel believe the gospel be saved. We are only elect when we are in the "elect one" and not before. While it is true that God elects people to salvation as only God can save, it is also true we must choose to be saved by a definite act of the will.

BTW, half of Revelation 3:7 says that no one can force his way into heaven, but the other half says that the Triune God, and He alone, brings people in there.

Yes I know that, does that surprise you? Only God saves and He only saves those that trust in His son.

By the way Martin I thought you might be interested in the Greek word order of Act 13:48

48 ἀκούοντα G191 δὲ G1161 τὰ G3588 ἔθνη G1484 ἔχαιρον G5463 καὶ G2532 ἐδόξαζον G1392 τὸν G3588 λόγον G3056 τοῦ G3588 κυρίου, G2962 καὶ G2532 ἐπίστευσαν G4100 ὅσο ιG3745 ἦσαν G1510 τεταγμένοι G5021 εἰς G1519 ζωὴν G2222 αἰώνιον· G166 Alford

48 And hearing, G191 G1161 the G3588 nations G1484 rejoiced,G5463 and G2532 glorified G1392 the G3588 word G3056 of the G3588 Lord; G2962 and G2532 [7 believed G4100 1as many as G3745 2 were G1510.7.6 3 being arranged G5021 4 for G1519 5 life G2222 6 eternal]. G166 ABP

The red # inside the brackets [ ] show the order the English text uses.

The Greek text supports the view that those that believe were saved/appointed to eternal life.

 

[Silverhair]

1 Corinthians 2:14
King James Version

14 "But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God:
for they are foolishness unto him:

neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned."

Just quoting a verse with no context means nothing. If you have a point to make then make it.

 

[Alan Gross]

Alan you are really starting to sound really illogical you are throwing out comments that are just off the wall.

You worship John Calvin, as THE AUTHOR of THE BIBLE.

 

[Alan Gross]

Just quoting a verse with no context means nothing. If you have a point to make then make it.

We're dealing with what God has Revealed to Mankind,
in the stated Scriptures.

(Not what carnal-minded "man" reasons out, using a mind
that was, and is, affected by The Fall of Adam
and is dead to "the Things of God" that are Spiritually Decerned.)

1 Corinthians 2:14
King James Version

14 "But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God:
for they are foolishness unto him:

neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned."

 

[Silverhair]

You worship John Calvin, as THE AUTHOR of THE BIBLE.

Alan your trolley car has gone of the tracks. I am not the calvinist in this back and forth.

 

[Silverhair]

We're dealing with what God has Revealed to Mankind,
in the stated Scriptures.

(Not what carnal-minded "man" reasons out, using a mind
that was, and is, affected by The Fall of Adam
and is dead to "the Things of God" that are Spiritually Decerned.)

1 Corinthians 2:14
King James Version

14 "But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God:
for they are foolishness unto him:

neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned."

Alan you should take your own advice and just trust scripture not your calvinist philosophy. For you to think I am a calvinist or trust what calvin says just shows how little you understand what I have said.

 

[MrW]

Calvinists do not believe in “whosoever will”. They are double-predestinarians.

 

[Alan Gross]

Alan you should take your own advice and just trust scripture not your calvinist philosophy. For you to think I am a calvinist or trust what calvin says just shows how little you understand what I have said.

Did Calvin, or God, say that God SAVES souls
by The Power, that Raised up Christ from the Dead?

A lost sinner remains dead in sins and trespasses,
until being Quickened & Renewed by the Holy Spirit,
and is thereby Spiritually Enabled to Answer the Effectual Call of God,
by and through the Instrumentation of The WORD of GOD
and to Embrace the Grace Offered and Conveyed in it;

by The Power, that Raised up Christ from the Dead.

i Eph. 1.19,20.

19 "And what is the Exceeding Greatness of His Power
to us-ward who believe, according to the Working of His Mighty Power,

20 Which He Wrought in Christ, when He Raised Him from the Dead,
and set Him at His Own Right Hand in the Heavenly Places,"

 

[MrW]

Belief precedes new birth.

 

[Alan Gross]

Calvinists do not believe in “whosoever will”. They are double-predestinarians.

All who eventually become the, "whosoever will",
were Elected before The Foundation of The World.

Those whom God hath predestinated unto Life,
He is Pleased to SAVE in His Appointed, and Accepted Time,

a Romans 8:30 ►
"Moreover whom He did Predestinate, them He also Called:
and whom He Called, them He also Justified:

and whom He Justified, them He also Glorified."

Rom. 11.7. Eph. 1.10,11. 2 Thes. 2.13,14.

GOD Effectually Calls by His word and Spirit,
out of that state of sin, and death,
in which they are by Nature, to Grace and Salvation

b Eph. 2.1-6. by Jesus Christ;

And you hath he quickened,
who were dead in trespasses and sins;

2 Wherein in time past
ye walked according to the course of this world,
according to the prince of the power of the air,
the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:

3 Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past
in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh
and of the mind;
and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.

4 But God, who is rich in mercy,
for his great love wherewith, he loved us,

5 Even when we were dead in sins,
hath quickened us together with Christ,
(by grace ye are saved

6 And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:"

Don't ask or expect lost souls to "believe" The WORD of GOD.

If they have never been Granted CONVICTION of their sins and SPIRITUAL REPENTANCE and FAITH, they have no SPIRIT of GOD to Understand Spiritual things, like that:

GOD Effectually Calls by His word and Spirit,
out of that state of sin, and death,
in which they are by Nature, to Grace and Salvation

b Eph. 2.1-6. by Jesus Christ;

5 Even when we were dead in sins,
hath quickened us together with Christ,
(by grace ye are saved

6 And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:"

 

[Alan Gross]

Belief precedes new birth.

The New Hampshire Confession of Faith 1833

VII. Grace in Regeneration

We believe that in order to be saved,
sinners must be regenerated,
or born again;

that regeneration consists
in giving a holy disposition to the mind;

that it is effected in a manner
above our comprehension
by the power of the Holy Spirit,
in connection with divine truth,

so as to secure our
voluntary obedience to the gospel;

and that its proper evidence appears
in the holy fruits of repentance and faith
and newness of life

John 3:3, John 3:6-7, I Cor.3:14, Rev.14:3, Rev. 21:27,
II Cor. 5;17, Ezek. 36:26, Deu. 30-6, Rom. 2:28-29,
Rom.5:5, I John 4:7, John 3:8, John 1:13, James 1:16-18,
I Cor. 1:30, Phil. 2:13, I Peter 1:22-25, I John 5:1,
Eph. 4:20-24, Col. 3:9-11, Eph. 5:9, Rom. 8:90, Gal. 5:16-23,
Eph. 3:14-21, Matt. 3:8-10, Matt.7:20, I John 5:4, 18

 

[MrW]

Wrong. If I am saved BEFORE I believe then belief is not necessary, which is contrary to John 3:16 and Acts 16:31, for only two clear examples.

Believe on the Lord Jesus…AND (subsequently) thou SHALT BE SAVED.

 

[Alan Gross]

Wrong. If I am saved BEFORE I believe then belief is not necessary, which is contrary to John 3:16 and Acts 16:31, for only two clear examples.

Believe on the Lord Jesus…AND (subsequently) thou SHALT BE SAVED.

What did the jailer know
about Jesus' Death, Burial, and Resurrection,
having been witness to and associated
with Paul and Silas' testimonies, to be imprisoned,
prior to this and what caused this?:

29 "Then he called for a light, and sprang in, and came trembling, and fell down before Paul and Silas,

Did the jailer know what happened to Lydia, in Acts 16?
that GOD OPENED HER HEART?

The Bible Teaches, in Acts 16:32,
that 32 "... they spake unto him the word of the Lord,
and to all that were in his house."

The Word of God and the Peaching of The Law
and The Gospel were Used as the Instrumentality
for the jailer to be Saved,
just like every other soul that Spiritually BELIEVES.

"Believe" is not a Process of Salvation, it is a Command.

...

In John 3:21;
"But he that doeth truth cometh to the light,
that his deeds may be made manifest,
that they are wrought in God."

it Teaches (to the Born Again Believer
that has the Spiritual Ability
to Follow the Spirit of God)
that the John 3:16, "whosoever's",
were "WROUGHT IN GOD".

...

The "Roman's Road", is The Road to Hell, without:

Romans 3:19-20;
"Now we know that what things soever the law saith,
it saith to them who are under the law:
that every mouth may be stopped,
and all the world may become guilty before God.

Therefore by the deeds of the law
there shall no flesh be justified in his sight:
for by the law is the knowledge of sin."

Decisionism; i.e., MENTAL / PHYSICAL CONSENT
to "trust", "believe",
"have faith", have "true trust",
"calling upon The Name of The Lord",
"Making Jesus The Lord of your life,
"not wanting to be 'Left Behind',
"believing on The Lord Jesus Christ"
without SPIRITUAL CONVICTION
and SPIRITUAL REPENTANCE
LEAVES LOST SOULS, LOST.

CONSENT of SIN without CONVICTION
and REPENTANCE
LEAVES LOST SOULS, LOST.

Does, "REGENERATION", exist in your plan of Salvation?

I SEE NO REGENERATION in most 'plans of salvation'.

THERE MUST BE SPIRITUAL CONVICTION of SIN,
TO BE FORGIVEN.

The lost sinner must be, "lost",
and have a soul-Wrought NEED
for a SAVIOR before they are SAVED.

 

[Silverhair]

Did Calvin, or God, say that God SAVES souls
by The Power, that Raised up Christ from the Dead?

A lost sinner remains dead in sins and trespasses,
until being Quickened & Renewed by the Holy Spirit,
and is thereby Spiritually Enabled to Answer the Effectual Call of God,
by and through the Instrumentation of The WORD of GOD
and to Embrace the Grace Offered and Conveyed in it;

by The Power, that Raised up Christ from the Dead.

i Eph. 1.19,20.

19 "And what is the Exceeding Greatness of His Power
to us-ward who believe, according to the Working of His Mighty Power,

20 Which He Wrought in Christ, when He Raised Him from the Dead,
and set Him at His Own Right Hand in the Heavenly Places,"

You preach your calvinist philosophy and then try to have it line up with the bible but sorry that does not work. You have to pick one or the other. My advise to you is pick the bible.

 

[Alan Gross]

You preach your calvinist philosophy and then try to have it line up with the bible but sorry that does not work. You have to pick one or the other. My advise to you is pick the bible.

Your answer is, "Calvin".

 

[Silverhair]

Your answer is, "Calvin".

You do have a serious problem with the English language don't you. It's either that or a lack of comprehension skills.