Featured How Autonomous

Interesting discussion here

especially how it relates to missions and unreached areas

 

It has been claimed that election to an office within the church, whether minister or leader, is found nowhere in the New Testament. However if we consider Acts 14:23 and 2 Corinthians 8:19, people are selected by a stretching out of the hand, i.e. voting. Thus the autonomous authority of the congregation is indeed found in the New Testament.

And this principle is a Baptist Distinctive, so how come those advocating insurrection are posting the views of other denominations?

 

Your verses don't make that claim.

 

The ordination of elders would be done by those in the denomination who are established and honored leaders from the denomination. The Pastor would be responsible to recommend. The congregation can provide opinion. The ordination council would question and review the candidate for eldership.

 

No doubt in new areas it’s prob a sole pastor

I’m afraid I may be more presby than most

it would seemingly cut down on heresy

 

You realize that this is an argument that the RCC makes as well as the Orthodox church. Succession from the Apostles.
It's actually a biblical pattern, but it went off track when tradition trumped scripture.
I think the concept of succession is sound, as long as those who pass on the succession remain grounded in God's word.
Was this not the very core and essence of the Reformation?

 

As a former missionary, I'd say that each church only answered to the apostle/missionary who planted it. Even then, there was not institutional authority as in a denomination, but spiritual authority as the believers responded to their discipler, the church planter. Paul wrote to a church he planted, "If I be not an apostle unto others, yet doubtless I am to you: for the seal of mine apostleship are ye in the Lord" (1 Cor. 9:2).

Being a church history prof, I love the early church and have read a lot on the 1st three centuries, but found no evidence of a denomination until perhaps the 4th century. "Bishops" from that era were local church pastors. Along with most scholars, I put the Catholic religion in the 6th century, though local denominations might have developed in the 4th-5th centuries.

 

The White Horse Inn has a good podcast titled: "Are You Called to Ministry." It's a good listen

Are You Called to Ministry?

 

There is a serious vacuum there

I blame seeker churches who changed church to consumerism instead of service

 

Roughly- how many pastors are in Japan?

missionaries?

 

A fun listen is John Gerstner's "Handout Church History" at Ligonier Ministries. It's 39 half hour teachings on Church History. It's a great summary for people.

Handout Church History by John Gerstner | Ligonier Ministries

 

It's the theology of "free will" and Charles Finney that imagines humans save humans by making the cross attractive and emotionally compelling. Entertain to bring them in and weave an emotional story to hook them. It is exactly what the mini-series "The Chosen" does with each episode.

 

Yes they do!

Note how the ignorant use personal incredulity, not knowing such argumentation is fallacious.

RGT
And when they had prayed and fasted and ordained them as elders by election in every church, they commended them to the Lord in Whom they believed.

NMB
And they appointed elders by election in every congregation, and prayed and fasted, and committed them to God on whom they believed.

NOG
They had the disciples in each church choose spiritual leaders, and with prayer and fasting they entrusted the leaders to the Lord in whom they believed.

GW
They had the disciples in each church choose spiritual leaders, and with prayer and fasting they entrusted the leaders to the Lord in whom they believed.

GNV
And when they had ordained them Elders by election in every Church, and prayed, and fasted, they commended them to the Lord in whom they believed.

EHV
They had elders elected for them in every church, and with prayer and fasting they entrusted them to the Lord, in whom they believed. ​

As anyone can see, this verse has been translated in several different ways:
1) Did the church establish the elders or did Paul and Barnabas pick them?
2) How was the choice made, by stretching out of hands in a vote (election) or by the edict of Paul and Barnabas?

Here is the Biblical usage:

1. to vote by stretching out the hand
   
   
2. to create or appoint by vote: one to have charge of some office or duty
   
3. to elect, create, appoint

​

The conclusion, in light of 2 Corinthians 8:19 which clearly indicates the cause of the action of selection are the church members, is that Acts 14:23 refers to an election by a show of hands.

 

I see. You looked for the least used interpretations and claim they are correct while ignoring the best translations.

 

I looked at what the word means, as used its two places and did not invent an agenda driven translation.

 

About 900 evangelical missionaries (450 couples) nowadays, but I'm not sure of the number of Japanese pastors. There are about 100 IFB churches (missionary or pastor), and maybe 500 or so SBC churches.

 

For reference: The state of KY has 2,400 SBC Churches and a population of 4.5M

Japan 126M

 

American Christians are spoiled. For example, there is only one reference Bible in Japanese--and it is put out by the JWs!