Featured Faith vs Faith and Repentance

Reference points from SIMMONS- THE DOCTRINE OF THE ATONEMENT

(a) It cannot be argued that God was under obligation to provide redemption for all men without exception, for such an argument would exclude grace from the atonement. Grace means not only unmerited favor, but also favor that is not owed. Grace and obligation are mutually exclusive.

Furthermore, if God was obligated to provide redemption for every son of Adam, He would be obligated likewise to give to each one the ability to receive that redemption by faith.

This God has not done, as we have shown in the previous chapter on election.*


"Redemption, as well as creation, must also be a purely sovereign determination of the divine will. This is required by the necessities of the case, as well as plainly declared in Scripture. No doctrine of redemption that in any way casts
the slightest shadow over the high mountain of Divine Sovereignty can be tolerated for a moment.

All theologies that in any manner teach or imply there was any obligation upon God to do this or that for fallen, rebellious subjects of law, are unscriptural, unreasonable, if not blasphemous" (Armour, Atonement and Law, p. 20).


(b) Furthermore it was not necessary for God to provide a general atonement to make men responsible for rejecting Christ. Men reject Christ not because of a lack of atonement for them, but because they love darkness rather than light (John 3:19), because they will not have Him to reign over them (Luke 19:14).


(c) Nor was it necessary that Christ die for the whole Adamic race in order to make God's general call sincere. It is the notion of some that God's general call requires men to believe that Christ died for them. This is not true. The twenty-eight chapters of Acts, "though replete with information about apostolic dealing with souls, record no precedent whatever for that now popular address to the unconverted- Christ died for you" (Sanger, The Redeemed). "All men are called on in Scripture to believe the gospel, but there is no instance in Scripture in which men are called upon to believe that Christ died for them" (Carson, The Doctrine of the Atonement and Other Treatises, P. 146).


The following illustration from "The Blood of Jesus," by William Reid, p. 37, also shows the compatibility of a limited atonement and the general invitations of the gospel. After describing passengers boarding a train at Aberdeen Station of the North-Eastern Railway, he says:


"Nor did I see any one refusing to enter because the car provided for only a limited number to proceed by that train. There might be eighty thousand inhabitants in and around the city, but still there was not one who talked of it as absurd to provide accommodations for only about twenty persons, for practically it was found to be sufficient.


"God, in His infinite wisdom, has made provision of a similar kind for our lost world. He has provided a train of grace to carry as many of its inhabitants to Heaven, the great metropolis of the universe, as are willing to avail themselves of the gracious provisions.


Suppose God had waited until the end before sending Christ to die, (as He could have done just as easily as He waited four thousand years after sin entered the world before sending Christ), and had then sent Him to die for all that had believed. It would then have been manifest that a limited atonement offers no hindrance to the salvation of any man that does not already exist because of the perversity of man's nature. Surely it is clear to every thinking person that the occurrence of Christ's death two thousand years ago does not change the case; for He died for all who shall ever believe, these having been known to God from eternity as fully as they shall be in the end.


We have intimated that God is as much under obligation to remove man's spiritual inability to come to Christ as He is to provide an atonement for Him. In other words, man's perversity of nature makes his salvation as impossible from a human standpoint as does the absence of an atonement.


But some may take exception to this by saying that whereas man's perversity of nature creates a moral impossibility, the lack of atonement furnishes a natural impossibility. We reply that this is correct; but the moral impossibility is primary and is absolute. Therefore the natural impossibility can furnish no added hindrance.


(d) Neither is a general atonement necessary to the manifestation of God's love. The provision of an ineffective atonement would reveal nothing but a blind, futile love. Is this the kind of love God's love is? Nay, verily, God's love is intelligent, purposeful, sovereign, effective. God's redemptive love is wholly grounded within Himself, and does not proceed at all because the objects of it are lovely, nor because they deserve anything good at His hands. Therefore, it is wholly subject to His sovereign will (Deut. 10:15; Rom. 9:13). It is His immanent, peculiar, gracious delight in bestowing His favor upon chosen objects.


(e) Finally a universal atonement is not necessary for the maintenance of evangelistic zeal and a missionary spirit. It is freely admitted that there have been those who held to a limited atonement whose evangelistic zeal was far from what it should have been. However the fault was not in that doctrine, but in their failure to see and believe other truths. In the case of many, including the noble Waldenses and Albigenses, as well as Spurgeon and many others of great note, overflowing evangelistic zeal and a stout belief in a limited atonement have dwelt side by side in the most glorious harmony. In fact, belief in a limited atonement, for reasons that we can not here take space to discus, should make men more evangelistic than belief in a general atonement, while keeping them back from hurtful excesses.

*Throughout this chapter we assume the truth of unconditional election as set forth in the preceding chapter. We would not waste time trying to prove the truth as to a limited atonement to an Arminian.

 

there is so much wrong with this article I do not even know where to begin.

first off. the premise, that God was under obligation to provide redemption for all men. I agree in the words. But in context. there is a deception going on. No one claims God is under obligation to die for everyone. God, in his infinite wisdom and love, CHOSE to die for everyone. "for God so loved the world" (Kosmos) Saying the argument must ber God is under obligation is misleading.. There is a huge difference between obligation (must) and choosing out of your infinite love (desire)

second, the premise that God has not given everyone the opportunity is False, for 1, God shows all through his creation who he is. He created us in his image, as moral people. that is why all people have a moral standard of some type. even the heathen will say in his heart murder is wrong.. rape is wrong. etc etc. As romans 1 says, they not only know what they do is sin and they are rightly judged (condemned) they push others to do it (live in their sin with them) so no one has an excuse.. Since everyone knows they are rightly judged. All God has to do is show them the plan to repent and be saved from that judgment. And he uses all sorts of things to attempt to draw them to himself (his word, His people, His work in their life and on their minds) He also tells us how to be born again, as the children of Israel had to look at the serpent that was lifted up. the son of man must be lifted up that WHOEVER (the offer is for everyone) believes, will not perish as they deserve, but be born again and given eternal life.

third. I agree, they love darkness more than life.. But I know many a people who through years of work through the church, in prayer, and in love, have repented.. even though they STILL loved their sin. I have also seen these people AFTER they were saved, change these sin habits. as God made them a new creature

I think we need to stop trying to make this an arminian vs calvin debate. While it may have started between these two forces.. the truth is outside of these forces.. And alot of these debates and hard heartedness I see comes from not willing to even give an inch to the enemy (not only this, but in OSAS debates and others)

 

He who believes is not condemned. He who does not believe is condemned already.

Show me the dead man who has believed.

If you cannot, then you must admit that God makes alive, those who are dead in their sins.
You must admit that until God makes the person alive, that person cannot believe.
So, until a person is made alive by God, that person is condemned since they cannot believe.

This is all taught to us by God. Will you accept what God tells you or will you keep looking for loopholes to get around what God tells you?

 

In principle sin is rebellion against God.

It is refusing to do the will of Him who has every right to demand obedience of US.

The position that "God so loved the world" means the world of men and women without distinction, particularly the Gentile " world", as the are often called, in addition to the Jews.

To hold to having God send His Son to die for souls that are also punished in Hell is accusing God of Blasphemous Double Jeopardy.

Saved individuals are to have a teachable Spirit and one that repents of Blasphemous charges against a Holy God.

Jesus died for the sins of His people. Matthew 1:21.

 

Sin is chosing self and your needs over others, it’s called living in the flesh (self) Thats the problem with so many they do not comprehend what sin is.

jesus died for people while they were sinners, his enemy. If he did not die for everyone, then his reputation is stained

the penalty of sin is paid for. The penalty of unbelief has not been paid for.

 

I will show you myself, I believed while dead, and through faith was made alive. At that point so many things about god and god himself became clear.

I do not have admit your fear of try8 g to save yourself that you can not have faith.

I not only have witnessed it in myself but many others

 

Eph 2:8 For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God,

This verse would disagree with you.

 

A lost sinner remains dead
in sins and trespasses,
until being Quickened
& Renewed by the Holy Spirit,
and is thereby Spiritually Enabled
to Answer the Effectual Call of God,
by and through
the Instrumentation of The WORD of GOD
and to Embrace the Grace Offered
and Conveyed in it; when they are Born Again

by The Same Power,
that Raised up Christ from the Dead.

Eph. 1.19,20.

19 "And what is the Exceeding Greatness
of His Power
to us-ward who believe,
according to the Working of His Mighty Power,

20 Which He Wrought in Christ,
when He Raised Him from the Dead,
and set Him at His Own Right Hand
in the Heavenly Places,"

...

My Bible says, "But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.

 

Faith is the Gift of God THROUGH WHICH
we are Saved by God's Eternally Giving Grace,
by being recipients of Conviction,
then Repentance and Faith, as fulfillment of
the Godhead's Eternal Plan of Salvation.

...

It cannot be argued that God provided redemption for all men without exception, nor that He was obligated to, for such an argument would exclude grace from the atonement.

Grace means not only unmerited favor, but also favor that is not owed.

Grace and obligation are mutually exclusive.

...

Some apparently are lost.

Their testimony is that sin has not been recognized with Spiritual Conviction and then,
not been turned from, by Grace,
through the Gift of Repentance, toward God in Agreement with Him against ourselves,
and Faith, toward Jesus'
Work of Eternal Redemption,
which is the New Birth.

 

What does the bible tell us about salvation? Well we know that the gospel is the power of God for salvation Romans 1:16 and that faith comes by hearing the word of God Romans 10:17 and that whoever calls on Him will be saved Romans 10:13 so that puts what you have posted at odds with scripture. Man is not saved so he can call on the Lord. He calls on the Lord so that he can be saved. Calvinism has the cart before the horse so to speak.
The sinner has to hear and believe the gospel message Ephesians 1:13 and confess their faith in Christ Jesus Romans 10:9-10 then he is sealed by the Holy Spirit.

 

I see you write a lot here but you have not scripture that supports you view. Read post # 50 and it should help clear up your confusion.

 

C vs A gives an illusion that, "A"*,
could possibly be valid,
or God Forbid, "as valid",
as The Doctrines of Grace,

which are a small portion
of the Manifold Wisdom
and Whole Counsel of God,

THE FAITH once delivered to the saints/
at I hold to these points of Calvinism
(by the number of)

*"A" denies the Adamic sin Imputed to all of Adam's posterity leaves them Totally Depraved,
when Salvation involves being Convicted of being Totally Depraved, to start with.

I didn't say they were lost.

I say that a person should know
or be able to be Taught How they Were Saved,
(from Totally Depravity) if they are Saved.

 

You're welcome for the best information posted to the internet this month.

Post#50 does not acknowledge "sin".

You have to be lost before your saved.

 

So you just blithely pass by the scriptures listed and hold to your calvinism. Are men depraved, yes indeed but the calvinist takes that to mean total inability which is not biblical so you start from a faulty foundation. The bible disagrees with your theological view but you dismiss that as irrelevant as you have your calvinist commentators to tell you what the bible should have said. Why trust the Holy Spirit when you have Owen or Gill to set you straight.

 

That's your takeaway from post # 50. You have way more serious problems than I thought.

 

We know that you don't read all of Romans, but instead you pluck sentences you think make your point since context is meaningless to you. The same goes for Ephesians or any book in the Bible for that matter. If you read and understood the whole argument of Paul's in his letter to the Romans you would see your error and change your view. But, you refuse to read the entire word of God in the whole, thus you have created a false gospel that promotes man above God.
We will have no agreement with one another.

 

God does not make anyone alive while still in sin. the penalty of sin must be removed before one who is dead in sin can be made alive in righteousness.

the process of removing the debt of sin is called justification.

we are justified through faith.

hence justification MUST precede regeneration..

we are saved by grace THROUGH faith.

while faith is there work of God it still must be acted on.. or the person remains dead.

he who does not believe is condemned already..

only those who believe are not condemned.

 

Wait, What!?
Apparently Ephesians 2 is a passage you will not read.
*Ephesians 2 : 4-5*
But God, being rich in mercy, because of the great love with which he loved us, even when we were dead in our trespasses, made us alive together with Christ—by grace you have been saved—

The Bible openly refutes your assertion.

You seem to just skip these verses and require faith before grace, which is not taught in Ephesians 2. You want justification before salvation, which is never taught anywhere in the Bible. You want human effort to be equal to God's ransom, which is never taught anywhere in scripture.
You want human action to be the cause agent of salvation and God's reaction to be the effect. You have it entirely backwards as you try to tear God off the throne and replace God with man on the throne.

 

my friend. You need to study the whole bible. not just eph 2. and eph 2 does not support your fatalistic view.

for it is BY GRACE we HAVE BEEN SAVED THROUGH FAITH.

that is WHEN we are made alive.

salvation includes

redemption
Justification
regeneration

one is NOT MADE LIVE while still under the penalty of sin.. You can spon it however you want, it is impossible. God does not. will not and can not go against his justice and his character..

he does not make us alive IN SIN (as your proposing) but he makes us alive BECAUSE sin is justified.

 

How does this Spiritually "dead" person make
their Spiritually dead soul, " be acted on".

What does the dead soul have that "do any acting" that is "Spiritually ALIVE"?

They raise themselves from the DEAD?