Symbols in the word of God.

[JD731]

I did not get to my example but I will later. There is much to know and if one will believe the words, he will be safe.

I want to follow up here and give the example of how God in his word uses the physical things that men understands in order to teach in symbolism and typology what he wants us to understand spiritually or prophetically. I could give hundreds of examples of the day of man/day of God type, but i choose Mark 9. This is in the time frame that Jesus and his disciples are going to Jerusalem from Galilee for the Passover feast. This will be the one where the Lamb of God will actually be slain and will rise again. Afterwards, Jesus will establish his kingdom that he and his disciples had been preaching about for the previous 3 1/2 years.

Mr 9:1 And he said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That there be some of them that stand here, which shall not taste of death, till they have seen the kingdom of God come with power.

2 And after six days Jesus taketh with him Peter, and James, and John, and leadeth them up into an high mountain apart by themselves: and he was transfigured before them.
3 And his raiment became shining, exceeding white as snow; so as no fuller on earth can white them.
4 And there appeared unto them Elias with Moses: and they were talking with Jesus.
5 And Peter answered and said to Jesus, Master, it is good for us to be here: and let us make three tabernacles; one for thee, and one for Moses, and one for Elias.
6 For he wist not what to say; for they were sore afraid.
7 And there was a cloud that overshadowed them: and a voice came out of the cloud, saying, This is my beloved Son: hear him.
8 And suddenly, when they had looked round about, they saw no man any more, save Jesus only with themselves.
9 And as they came down from the mountain, he charged them that they should tell no man what things they had seen, till the Son of man were risen from the dead.
10 And they kept that saying with themselves, questioning one with another what the rising from the dead should mean.

After 6 days for the disciples would be the 7th day, all 24 hour days. So from the time Jesus told his disciples they would see the glorious kingdom that he had mentioned in the previous chapter and they waited 6 days and then on the 7th day were taken on a high mountain where it was revealed to them. A mountain in scripture represents symbolically a kingdom and the higher the mountain the greater the kingdom.

But, to Jesus and to God, the 6 days were 6000 years. After 6000 years in the day/thousand/thousand/day formula that God gave us in his thinking, God would establish his kingdom on earth. This, of course would be a sabbath rest.

There is much symbolism in this example that I have not touched on, but I will quote this one conversation just after this event.

Mr 9:9 And as they came down from the mountain, he charged them that they should tell no man what things they had seen, till the Son of man were risen from the dead.
10 And they kept that saying with themselves, questioning one with another what the rising from the dead should mean.
11 And they asked him, saying, Why say the scribes that Elias must first come?
12 And he answered and told them, Elias verily cometh first, and restoreth all things; and how it is written of the Son of man, that he must suffer many things, and be set at nought.
13 But I say unto you, That Elias is indeed come, and they have done unto him whatsoever they listed, as it is written of him.

Matthew added this in his gospel:

Mt 17:13 Then the disciples understood that he spake unto them of John the Baptist.

Isa 55:6 Seek ye the LORD while he may be found, call ye upon him while he is near:
7 Let the wicked forsake his way, and the unrighteous man his thoughts: and let him return unto the LORD, and he will have mercy upon him; and to our God, for he will abundantly pardon.
8 For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the LORD.
9 For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts.
10 For as the rain cometh down, and the snow from heaven, and returneth not thither, but watereth the earth, and maketh it bring forth and bud, that it may give seed to the sower, and bread to the eater:
11 So shall my word be that goeth forth out of my mouth: it shall not return unto me void, but it shall accomplish that which I please, and it shall prosper in the thing whereto I sent it.

Does this make sense to you?

 

[JD731]

If one understands this "day of the Lord" then he can know that the entire day is 1000 years long and he will have no problem understanding that Re 20:2-3 is speaking of a literal 1000 years, which is only one day, the sabbath day, in God's reckoning of time. The wrath of God against sinners is accomplished in the first 3 1/2 years of the day and in the final days just before the Great White Throne judgement.

Isa 14:1 For the LORD will have mercy on Jacob, and will yet choose Israel, and set them in their own land: and the strangers shall be joined with them, and they shall cleave to the house of Jacob.


This following prophesy foretells the time that we read about in Re 20 when the Serpent is cast into the pit and locked up for a thousand years.

Isa:14:1 For the LORD will have mercy on Jacob, and will yet choose Israel, and set them in their own land: and the strangers shall be joined with them, and they shall cleave to the house of Jacob.
2 And the people shall take them, and bring them to their place: and the house of Israel shall possess them in the land of the LORD for servants and handmaids: and they shall take them captives, whose captives they were; and they shall rule over their oppressors.
3 And it shall come to pass in the day (the 1000 year day of the LORD) that the LORD shall give thee rest from thy sorrow, and from thy fear, and from the hard bondage wherein thou wast made to serve,
4 That thou shalt take up this proverb against the king of Babylon, and say, How hath the oppressor ceased! the golden city ceased!
5 The LORD hath broken the staff of the wicked, and the sceptre of the rulers.
6 He who smote the people in wrath with a continual stroke, he that ruled the nations in anger, is persecuted, and none hindereth.
7 The whole earth is at rest, and is quiet: they break forth into singing.
8 Yea, the fir trees rejoice at thee, and the cedars of Lebanon, saying, Since thou art laid down, no feller is come up against us.
9 Hell from beneath is moved for thee to meet thee at thy coming: it stirreth up the dead for thee, even all the chief ones of the earth; it hath raised up from their thrones all the kings of the nations.
10 All they shall speak and say unto thee, Art thou also become weak as we? art thou become like unto us?
11 Thy pomp is brought down to the grave, and the noise of thy viols: the worm is spread under thee, and the worms cover thee.

 

[Alan Gross]

Are these things supposed to be TAUGHT from the scriptures you quoted?

I don't see them.

Maybe it's in your imagination, only.

If one understands this "day of the Lord" then he can know that the entire day is 1000 years long and he will have no problem understanding that Re 20:2-3 is speaking of a literal 1000 years, which is only one day, the sabbath day, in God's reckoning of time. The wrath of God against sinners is accomplished in the first 3 1/2 years of the day and in the final days just before the Great White Throne judgement.

Isa 14:1 For the LORD will have mercy on Jacob, and will yet choose Israel, and set them in their own land: and the strangers shall be joined with them, and they shall cleave to the house of Jacob.

?

3 And it shall come to pass in the day (the 1000 year day of the LORD)

?

 

[JD731]

Are these things supposed to be TAUGHT from the scriptures you quoted?

I don't see them.

Maybe it's in your imagination, only.



?



?

I know you don't see them. That is why I am here. I am trying to help by shining some light on some truth. If not you, then maybe someone.

Believe the words!​

 

[Alan Gross]

After 6 days for the disciples would be the 7th day, all 24 hour days. So from the time Jesus told his disciples they would see the glorious kingdom that he had mentioned in the previous chapter and they waited 6 days and then on the 7th day were taken on a high mountain where it was revealed to them. A mountain in scripture represents symbolically a kingdom and the higher the mountain the greater the kingdom.

But, to Jesus and to God, the 6 days were 6000 years. After 6000 years in the day/thousand/thousand/day formula that God gave us in his thinking, God would establish his kingdom on earth. This, of course would be a sabbath rest.

Fantastic.

Not a word of truth to it, but Fantastic.

Does this make sense to you?

Why would it? You're just making up stuff out of your head.

"After 6 days for the disciples would be the 7th day, all 24 hour days."

"But, to Jesus and to God, the 6 days were 6000 years. After 6000 years in the day/thousand/thousand/day formula that God gave us in his thinking, God would establish his kingdom on earth. This, of course would be a sabbath rest."

The day/thousand/thousand/day, you are trying to say, that teachesGod is not bound by "Time" and that "Time" is irrelevant to God, has nothing to do with an indiscriminate "formula" that can be plucked and placed wherever, for whatever "reason".

 

[JD731]

Fantastic.

Not a word of truth to it, but Fantastic.



Why would it? You're just making up stuff out of your head.

"After 6 days for the disciples would be the 7th day, all 24 hour days."

"But, to Jesus and to God, the 6 days were 6000 years. After 6000 years in the day/thousand/thousand/day formula that God gave us in his thinking, God would establish his kingdom on earth. This, of course would be a sabbath rest."

The day/thousand/thousand/day, you are trying to say, that teachesGod is not bound by "Time" and that "Time" is irrelevant to God, has nothing to do with an indiscriminate "formula" that can be plucked and placed wherever, for whatever "reason".

If you are admitting you do not believe that a thousand years is as one day and one day is as a thousand years with God, it is not I who is guilty of unbelief. I did not make that up. I just believed the words I was reading. Read it for yourself;

2Pe 3:8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day [is] with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.

The context is "the day of the LORD." THINK!

2Pe 3:10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.

I cannot help you if you refuse to believe the words and honor the context. Maybe your translations says something different than mine.

BELIEVE THE WORDS​

 

[Alan Gross]

If you are admitting you do not believe that a thousand years is as one day and one day is as a thousand years with God, it is not I who is guilty of unbelief. I did not make that up. I just believed the words I was reading. Read it for yourself;

2Pe 3:8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day [is] with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.

The context is "the day of the LORD." THINK!

2Pe 3:10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.

I cannot help you if you refuse to believe the words and honor the context. Maybe your translations says something different than mine.

BELIEVE THE WORDS​

In A Body of Doctrinal Divinity
by John Gill, 1697-1771

BOOK 4.

I see:

Of the Acts of the Grace of God Towards and upon His Elect in Time
to be the correct view of the different Administrations, by the GODHEAD, of the One Covenant of Grace for the Salvation of His Elect, from Eternity past.

I don't mean to be rejecting of a system you hold to, but I am familiar with Dispensationalism* and the 1,000 years as a day used as a formula for explaining the different "ages" and the end times.

Scofield made it quiet popular, but I think it is off the mark compared to seeking out what God says about His different Covenants with His children.

This link might give a better bunch of links to Gill's Body of Divinity and his Book IV.

A Body of Doctrinal Divinity (eBook) | Monergism

* Is this it?

The Scofield Bible, Dispensationalism and the Salvation of the Jews


Excerpt:

8. Dispensationatism and the Jews.

"Dispensationalists hold that during the seven year period between the Rapture and the Revelation, which they claim to be the 70th week of Daniel’s prophecy, a number of predicted events are to occur — such as the apostacy, the appearance and reign of the Anti-Christ, the Great Tribulation and the conversion of the Jews.

At the Rapture, they maintain that the church is caught up out of the world to be with Christ in the air.

With the departure of the church the Holy Spirit is also withdrawn from the world.

"The Jews, so this theory holds, are to be converted at the mere sight of Christ their Messiah on the Mount of Olives, and through their testimony, whole nations are to be converted.

We must point out, however, that people were not converted at the mere sight of Jesus at the time of His first advent, and that it is the particular work of the Holy Spirit to regenerate the soul and give it new vision and so enable it to turn to Christ.

The mere presence of Christ often had the effect of hardening His enemies rather than converting them."

 

[JD731]

In A Body of Doctrinal Divinity
by John Gill, 1697-1771

BOOK 4.

I see:

Of the Acts of the Grace of God Towards and upon His Elect in Time
to be the correct view of the different Administrations, by the GODHEAD, of the One Covenant of Grace for the Salvation of His Elect, from Eternity past.

I don't mean to be rejecting of a system you hold to, but I am familiar with Dispensationalism* and the 1,000 years as a day used as a formula for explaining the different "ages" and the end times.

Scofield made it quiet popular, but I think it is off the mark compared to seeking out what God says about His different Covenants with His children.

This link might give a better bunch of links to Gill's Body of Divinity and his Book IV.

A Body of Doctrinal Divinity (eBook) | Monergism

* Is this it?

The Scofield Bible, Dispensationalism and the Salvation of the Jews


Excerpt:

8. Dispensationatism and the Jews.

"Dispensationalists hold that during the seven year period between the Rapture and the Revelation, which they claim to be the 70th week of Daniel’s prophecy, a number of predicted events are to occur — such as the apostacy, the appearance and reign of the Anti-Christ, the Great Tribulation and the conversion of the Jews.

At the Rapture, they maintain that the church is caught up out of the world to be with Christ in the air.

With the departure of the church the Holy Spirit is also withdrawn from the world.

"The Jews, so this theory holds, are to be converted at the mere sight of Christ their Messiah on the Mount of Olives, and through their testimony, whole nations are to be converted.

We must point out, however, that people were not converted at the mere sight of Jesus at the time of His first advent, and that it is the particular work of the Holy Spirit to regenerate the soul and give it new vision and so enable it to turn to Christ.

The mere presence of Christ often had the effect of hardening His enemies rather than converting them."

I am very aware, or at least I have become aware from my conversations with you Reformed, that you have nothing to say that you personally know anything about. You relegate yourself to quoting a handful of what I suppose you considers elite teachers in your organizations. I am sad to see this, of course.

I will answer just one very important misinformed statement by Mr. Gill.

We must point out, however, that people were not converted at the mere sight of Jesus at the time of His first advent, and that it is the particular work of the Holy Spirit to regenerate the soul and give it new vision and so enable it to turn to Christ.

No dispensationalist or no Bible believer will ever teach that anyone is saved by sight.. In John 6 we have this statement from Jesus himself;

Joh 6:40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

Seeing the Son did not cause the Jews to accept that Jesus is the Son of God, and come to him for eternal life, but believing what the Father said about him in the prophets. There is no way for any man at any time to be saved without personal faith in Jesus Christ. The fact that you and Mr Gill seem to agree together that you do not have any personal faith and that neither of you have ever seen Jesus Christ, is troubling indeed.

Choosing which verses to believe and which ones to ignore like you guys do sends all kinds of bad vibes my way.

 

[AustinC]

I am very aware, or at least I have become aware from my conversations with you Reformed, that you have nothing to say that you personally know anything about. You relegate yourself to quoting a handful of what I suppose you considers elite teachers in your organizations. I am sad to see this, of course.

I will answer just one very important misinformed statement by Mr. Gill.



No dispensationalist or no Bible believer will ever teach that anyone is saved by sight.. In John 6 we have this statement from Jesus himself;

Joh 6:40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

Seeing the Son did not cause the Jews to accept that Jesus is the Son of God, and come to him for eternal life, but believing what the Father said about him in the prophets. There is no way for any man at any time to be saved without personal faith in Jesus Christ. The fact that you and Mr Gill seem to agree together that you do not have any personal faith and that neither of you have ever seen Jesus Christ, is troubling indeed.

Choosing which verses to believe and which ones to ignore like you guys do sends all kinds of bad vibes my way.

Speaking of the Bible, I noticed you left out the 4 verses that come before your verse in John 6. Care to explain why you didn't share that text? Could it be that God gives you an answer you don't like?

*John 6:36-40*
But I said to you that you have seen me and yet do not believe. All that the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never cast out. For I have come down from heaven, not to do my own will but the will of him who sent me. And this is the will of him who sent me, that I should lose nothing of all that he has given me, but raise it up on the last day. For this is the will of my Father, that everyone who looks on the Son and believes in him should have eternal life, and I will raise him up on the last day.”

The full text tells the story, but you don't like what it tells you.

 

[Alan Gross]

I am not:

Reformed

that you have nothing to say that you personally know anything about.

?

Don't know where you get this: "The fact that you and Mr Gill seem to agree together that you do not have any personal faith and that neither of you have ever seen Jesus Christ, is troubling indeed."



The excerpt is from: The Scofield Bible, Dispensationalism and the Salvation of the Jews

I was asking "is this it?" What you believe?

Do you believe in Dispensationalism’?

This is from my blog: 1.0.3b The Gospel of The Kingdom #1; 20th Century ‘Dispensationalism’ is practically identical to LOST 1st Century JEWS who CRUCIFIED JESUS

 

[JD731]

I am not:





?

Don't know where you get this: "The fact that you and Mr Gill seem to agree together that you do not have any personal faith and that neither of you have ever seen Jesus Christ, is troubling indeed."



The excerpt is from: The Scofield Bible, Dispensationalism and the Salvation of the Jews

I was asking "is this it?" What you believe?

Do you believe in Dispensationalism’?

This is from my blog: 1.0.3b The Gospel of The Kingdom #1; 20th Century ‘Dispensationalism’ is practically identical to LOST 1st Century JEWS who CRUCIFIED JESUS

Dispensation is a Bible word and is God's idea, not mine. So, since God teaches it then I sure do believe it. The word is in the NT 7 times. Quite appropriate if you ask me seeing the manner in which God uses the number 7 in his revelation of himself and his ways. Four times it is translated as dispensation & 3 times it is translated as stewardship. 4 and 3 is generally the way in which God divides the number 7 in his great Bible. Appropriately, stewardship is the word in the gospels and dispensation is the word in the epistles. The number 4 is the number for the earth and the number 3 is the number for God in the heavenlies, the trinity. Men build their things on 4 corners and a rectangle best describes the way of the earth while a circle best defines the eternal God who has no end or beginning. God puts the things that associates with himself in round things. I am drinking a cup of coffee right now and it is liquid, mostly water, and it is in a round cup. My air tank in the garage is round but my yard that I will need to mow soon is a rectangle. Sunlight comes off of a round orb in the heavens and my electric light bulb overhead is round.

The heavens declare the glory of God Ps 19:1, and the firmament showeth his handiwork.

But you don't believe any of these things because you do not believe the words of the Bible. You believe John Gill and not God. You might even be one of those flat earth guys.

I will try to remember to give you an undeniable example and illustration of dispensational truth at some point today. Maybe sooner than later.

Lu 16:2 And he called him, and said unto him, How is it that I hear this of thee? give an account of thy stewardship <3622>; for thou mayest be no longer steward.
Lu 16:3 Then the steward said within himself, What shall I do? for my lord taketh away from me the stewardship <3622>: I cannot dig; to beg I am ashamed.
Lu 16:4 I am resolved what to do, that, when I am put out of the stewardship <3622>, they may receive me into their houses.
1Co 9:17 For if I do this thing willingly, I have a reward: but if against my will, a dispensation <3622> of the gospel is committed unto me.
Eph 1:10 That in the dispensation <3622> of the fulness of times he might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; even in him:
Eph 3:2 If ye have heard of the dispensation <3622> of the grace of God which is given me to you-ward:
Col 1:25 Whereof I am made a minister, according to the dispensation <3622> of God which is given to me for you, to fulfil the word of God;

3622 οἰκονομία oikonomia [oy-kon-om-ee’-ah]
from 3623; n f; TDNT-5:151,674; [{See TDNT 539 }]
AV-dispensation 4, stewardship 3; 7
1) the management of a household or of household affairs
1a) specifically, the management, oversight, administration, of other’s property
1b) the office of a manager or overseer, stewardship
1c) administration, dispensation

1Co 4:1 Let a man so account of us (the apostles and prophets), as of the ministers of Christ, and stewards of the mysteries of God.
2 Moreover it is required in stewards, that a man be found faithful.

One must know something about the mysteries of God before he can be a faithful steward of them. This, I think is where John Gill, yea, and all Reformed fails monstrously. They have no knowledge of the mysteries of the faith.

I like this definition of dispensation and apply it to my understanding.

Dispensation = an exemption from a rule or usual requirement.

a system of order, government, or organization of a nation, community, etc., especially as existing at a particular time.

This definition will be the basis of my coming illustration.

BELIEVE THE WORDS​

 

[AustinC]

Dispensation

An administration, ministry, or stewardship for which a person has responsibility in God's administration of salvation. In certain interpretations of Scripture, a period of time during which people are tested in respect to their obedience to a specific revelation of God's will. “Dispensation” appears four times in the King James Version (1 Corinthians 9:17 (NAS)
17 For if I do this voluntarily, I have a reward; but if against my will, I have a stewardship entrusted to me.

1 Corinthians 9:17; Ephesians 1:10 (NAS)
10 with a view to an administration suitable to the fullness of the times, that is, the summing up of all things in Christ, things in the heavens and things on the earth. In Him

Ephesians 1:10; Ephesians 3:2 (NAS)
2 if indeed you have heard of the stewardship of God's grace which was given to me for you;

Ephesians 3:2; Colossians 1:25 (NAS)
25 Of this church I was made a minister according to the stewardship from God bestowed on me for your benefit, so that I might fully carry out the preaching of the word of God,

Colossians 1:25 ). Each time it translates the Greek oikonomia , which normally refers to an office and the management functions related to the office. See Luke 16:2-4 (NAS)
2 And he called him and said to him, What is this I hear about you? Give an accounting of your management, for you can no longer be manager.' 3 The manager said to himself, What shall I do, since my master is taking the management away from me? I am not strong enough to dig; I am ashamed to beg. 4 I know what I shall do, so that when I am removed from the management people will welcome me into their homes.'

Luke 16:2-4 . In Ephesians 3:9 (NAS)
9 and to bring to light what is the administration of the mystery which for ages has been hidden in God who created all things;
Ephesians 3:9 KJV translates the term, “fellowship,” and in 1 Timothy 1:4 (NAS)
4 nor to pay attention to myths and endless genealogies, which give rise to mere speculation rather than furthering the administration of God which is by faith.

Timothy 1:4 , “edifying.” Modern translations differ in translating oikonomia in the four basic passages.

The New American Standard translates oikonohymia as “stewardship” in all but the Ephesians 1:10 (NAS)
10 with a view to an administration suitable to the fullness of the times, that is, the summing up of all things in Christ, things in the heavens and things on the earth. In Him

Ephesians 1:10 passage which translates it “administration.” New Revised Standard Version translates it “commission” except for Ephesians 1:10 (NAS)
10 with a view to an administration suitable to the fullness of the times, that is, the summing up of all things in Christ, things in the heavens and things on the earth. In Him

Ephesians 1:10 for which the translation is “plan.” The New International Version translates oikonomia differently in each passage: 1 Corinthians 9:17 (NAS)
17 For if I do this voluntarily, I have a reward; but if against my will, I have a stewardship entrusted to me.

1 Corinthians 9:17 , “trust”; Ephesians 1:10 (NAS)
10 with a view to an administration suitable to the fullness of the times, that is, the summing up of all things in Christ, things in the heavens and things on the earth. In Him

Ephesians 1:10 , “put in effect”; Ephesians 3:2 (NAS)
2 if indeed you have heard of the stewardship of God's grace which was given to me for you;

Ephesians 3:2 , “administration”; Colossians 1:25 (NAS)
25 Of this church I was made a minister according to the stewardship from God bestowed on me for your benefit, so that I might fully carry out the preaching of the word of God,

Colossians 1:25 , “commission.”
The New Testament thus uses oikonomia to refer either to Paul's ministry in his apostolic office or God's administration of the world and of His plan of salvation for it. Paul thus had a part in working out God's eternal plan of salvation.

Dispensation - Holman Bible Dictionary -

 

[JD731]

Dispensation

An administration, ministry, or stewardship for which a person has responsibility in God's administration of salvation. In certain interpretations of Scripture, a period of time during which people are tested in respect to their obedience to a specific revelation of God's will. “Dispensation” appears four times in the King James Version (1 Corinthians 9:17 (NAS)
17 For if I do this voluntarily, I have a reward; but if against my will, I have a stewardship entrusted to me.

1 Corinthians 9:17; Ephesians 1:10 (NAS)
10 with a view to an administration suitable to the fullness of the times, that is, the summing up of all things in Christ, things in the heavens and things on the earth. In Him

Ephesians 1:10; Ephesians 3:2 (NAS)
2 if indeed you have heard of the stewardship of God's grace which was given to me for you;

Ephesians 3:2; Colossians 1:25 (NAS)
25 Of this church I was made a minister according to the stewardship from God bestowed on me for your benefit, so that I might fully carry out the preaching of the word of God,

Colossians 1:25 ). Each time it translates the Greek oikonomia , which normally refers to an office and the management functions related to the office. See Luke 16:2-4 (NAS)
2 And he called him and said to him, What is this I hear about you? Give an accounting of your management, for you can no longer be manager.' 3 The manager said to himself, What shall I do, since my master is taking the management away from me? I am not strong enough to dig; I am ashamed to beg. 4 I know what I shall do, so that when I am removed from the management people will welcome me into their homes.'

Luke 16:2-4 . In Ephesians 3:9 (NAS)
9 and to bring to light what is the administration of the mystery which for ages has been hidden in God who created all things;
Ephesians 3:9 KJV translates the term, “fellowship,” and in 1 Timothy 1:4 (NAS)
4 nor to pay attention to myths and endless genealogies, which give rise to mere speculation rather than furthering the administration of God which is by faith.

Timothy 1:4 , “edifying.” Modern translations differ in translating oikonomia in the four basic passages.

The New American Standard translates oikonohymia as “stewardship” in all but the Ephesians 1:10 (NAS)
10 with a view to an administration suitable to the fullness of the times, that is, the summing up of all things in Christ, things in the heavens and things on the earth. In Him

Ephesians 1:10 passage which translates it “administration.” New Revised Standard Version translates it “commission” except for Ephesians 1:10 (NAS)
10 with a view to an administration suitable to the fullness of the times, that is, the summing up of all things in Christ, things in the heavens and things on the earth. In Him

Ephesians 1:10 for which the translation is “plan.” The New International Version translates oikonomia differently in each passage: 1 Corinthians 9:17 (NAS)
17 For if I do this voluntarily, I have a reward; but if against my will, I have a stewardship entrusted to me.

1 Corinthians 9:17 , “trust”; Ephesians 1:10 (NAS)
10 with a view to an administration suitable to the fullness of the times, that is, the summing up of all things in Christ, things in the heavens and things on the earth. In Him

Ephesians 1:10 , “put in effect”; Ephesians 3:2 (NAS)
2 if indeed you have heard of the stewardship of God's grace which was given to me for you;

Ephesians 3:2 , “administration”; Colossians 1:25 (NAS)
25 Of this church I was made a minister according to the stewardship from God bestowed on me for your benefit, so that I might fully carry out the preaching of the word of God,

Colossians 1:25 , “commission.”
The New Testament thus uses oikonomia to refer either to Paul's ministry in his apostolic office or God's administration of the world and of His plan of salvation for it. Paul thus had a part in working out God's eternal plan of salvation.

Dispensation - Holman Bible Dictionary -

Your NAS is confusion and I believe is akin to the false prophets of old. God did not send the false prophets but they caused the people to trust in a lie. There are other truths violated by having many different words in many different translations.. My best advise to you is to get rid of that NAS as quickly as possible.

God said in 1 Cor for all his children to speak the same things that there be no division. You guys have a hundred different words and how can there be any unity in doctrine. Look at you. You are disagreeing because of that very thing. The next guy comes along with a different translation and will disagree with both of us.

There is no remedy for the spirit of apostasy and the fact that God is censored through manifold translations is just not right.

 

[JD731]

Dispensation = an exemption from a rule or usual requirement.

a system of order, government, or organization of a nation, community, etc., especially as existing at a particular time.

What Paul wrote to us in explanation of what he calls "the dispensation of the grace of God" suggests to us that God has introduced a new dispensation that exempted us from requirements of a previous dispensation, or system of order that had been in place. It is interesting that this dispensation was ordered by God at the same time that he was opening the door of faith to gentiles.

Eph 3:1 For this cause I Paul, the prisoner of Jesus Christ for you Gentiles,
2 If ye have heard of the dispensation of the grace of God which is given me to you-ward (gentile-ward)
3 How that by revelation he made known unto me the mystery; (as I wrote afore in few words,
4 Whereby, when ye read, ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ)
5 Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit;
6 That the Gentiles should be fellowheirs, and of the same body, and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel:

The words above are of utmost importance to read and understand because Paul is revealing a mystery and explaining it in this letter. It has to do with gentiles and a dispensation. This means it was an unrevealed mystery before and it was not a system of order that had existed previously. In order to establish this, there had to be an exemption from a previous of rules from a previous dispensational requirement.

But, before I continue with that, there are things one must know about the apostle to whom this new dispensation with it's system of order was revealed.

First of all, Jesus Christ rose from the dead in 30 AD and the church of Jesus Christ had it's beginning with only Israelites. It continued that way until AD 37 without anyone else besides these people being saved. It was at that time that the Jewish rulership became so antagonistic to the followers of Christ that they began to kill them. It was at this same time that Paul, one of the chief antagonists got miraculously saved, and Jesus appointed him a mission to the gentiles. His training for this work was over the next 3 years in Arabia. That brought us to 40 AD when a man from Italy, a Roman soldier, prayed to God for salvation. He was a gentile and the Jews had not been commissioned at this time to preach to gentiles. The door to gentiles was closed and had not been opened. This man Peter had been given the keys in Matt 16 if anyone wants to read about it. It is in Mt 16:13-19. Peter had used these keys once already in Jerusalem when the Jews began to get saved through Peter's preaching. Now it was time for Peter to use the keys to unlock saving faith to gentiles.

The story of this beginning of the dispensation of the grace of God begins with Peter because some of the old rules would need to be exempted and some requirements abolished in order to include the gentiles. There would need to be the authority of an apostle to make this transition credible. Paul had not yet been commissioned as an apostle and would not have been received by the other apostle any way. So God tapped Peter in Acts 10 in the year 40 AD to be the first to preach the gospel of Christ to gentiles and he had Corneilus to send for him in Simon's house. While they were coming God prepared Peter to receive them by a demonstration of changing the rules.

I am going to quote the passage and say nothing else in this post. See if anyone can pick up the exemptions in the passage. I have much more to say if anyone is listening.

Ac 10:7 And when the angel which spake unto Cornelius was departed, he called two of his household servants, and a devout soldier of them that waited on him continually;
8 And when he had declared all [these] things unto them, he sent them to Joppa.
9 On the morrow, as they went on their journey, and drew nigh unto the city, Peter went up upon the housetop to pray about the sixth hour:
10 And he became very hungry, and would have eaten: but while they made ready, he fell into a trance,
11 And saw heaven opened, and a certain vessel descending unto him, as it had been a great sheet knit at the four corners, and let down to the earth:
12 Wherein were all manner of fourfooted beasts of the earth, and wild beasts, and creeping things, and fowls of the air.
13 And there came a voice to him, Rise, Peter; kill, and eat.
14 But Peter said, Not so, Lord; for I have never eaten any thing that is common or unclean.
15 And the voice spake unto him again the second time, What God hath cleansed, [that] call not thou common.
16 This was done thrice: and the vessel was received up again into heaven.
17 Now while Peter doubted in himself what this vision which he had seen should mean, behold, the men which were sent from Cornelius had made enquiry for Simon’s house, and stood before the gate,
18 And called, and asked whether Simon, which was surnamed Peter, were lodged there.
19 While Peter thought on the vision, the Spirit said unto him, Behold, three men seek thee.
20 Arise therefore, and get thee down, and go with them, doubting nothing: for I have sent them.

 

[AustinC]

Your NAS is confusion and I believe is akin to the false prophets of old. God did not send the false prophets but they caused the people to trust in a lie. There are other truths violated by having many different words in many different translations.. My best advise to you is to get rid of that NAS as quickly as possible.

God said in 1 Cor for all his children to speak the same things that there be no division. You guys have a hundred different words and how can there be any unity in doctrine. Look at you. You are disagreeing because of that very thing. The next guy comes along with a different translation and will disagree with both of us.

There is no remedy for the spirit of apostasy and the fact that God is censored through manifold translations is just not right.

JD, you are confused and do not grasp dispensation as it's used in the Bible. Moreso, you have clung to a terrible philosophy called "Dispensationalism" which takes the Bible and butchers it like a young child dissecting a pig in a science lab.

 

[JD731]

JD, you are confused and do not grasp dispensation as it's used in the Bible. Moreso, you have clung to a terrible philosophy called "Dispensationalism" which takes the Bible and butchers it like a young child dissecting a pig in a science lab.

You are terribly deceived and do not even have a clue. I have observed how you can read a text of scripture and cannot process what it says. And look at you. You are not taking the passage and explaining how I am not making sense of it, you are just making a random statement that it is not what you believe so you are not going to believe it. A case in point is John 6. You have made the drawing of God as applying to you a fundamental doctrine of your faith and have insisted verse 44 be taken literally while completely ignoring the requirement of verse 40.You insist from the text that faith is a work in spite of Jesus saying, "the work of God is that you believe in Jesus." You actually read Romans two and droned on about how God was making a new Israel out of gentile believers when there is nothing in the text that says anything like that, the name Israel being used interchangeably with Jacob throughout the remainder of Romans, with the gentiles being contrasted with them.

What do you expect to gain by your present course? Your teachers have made up scores of doctrines and invented many strange things with strange non biblical terms and taught you the grand doctrine of illogic. It beats all!

I have more things to say about my dispensational subject, that is taught in the word of God, that you say is not in there even as I show how God is instructing Peter to exempt the ceremonial laws they had been observing going forward because of the inclusion and addition of the gentiles with the Jews as the object of his gift of salvation..

I am being tough on you but I am hoping to wake you up and be a blessing to you.

Just believe the words.

 

[JD731]

3622 οἰκονομία oikonomia [oy-kon-om-ee’-ah]
from 3623; n f; TDNT-5:151,674; [{See TDNT 539 }]
AV-dispensation 4, stewardship 3; 7
1) the management of a household or of household affairs
1a) specifically, the management, oversight, administration, of other’s property
1b) the office of a manager or overseer, stewardship
1c) administration, dispensation

Let's look at our doctrine from the standpoint of my highlighted definition of dispensation.

I have some verse I would like to display.

Heb 3:1 Wherefore, holy brethren, partakers of the heavenly calling, consider the Apostle and High Priest of our profession, Christ Jesus;
2 Who was faithful to him that appointed him, as also Moses was faithful in all his house.
3 For this man was counted worthy of more glory than Moses, inasmuch as he who hath builded the house hath more honour than the house.
4 For every house is builded by some man; but he that built all things is God.
5 And Moses verily was faithful in all his house, as a servant, for a testimony of those things which were to be spoken after;
6 But Christ as a son over his own house; whose house are we, if we hold fast the confidence and the rejoicing of the hope firm unto the end.

Now one is immediately confronted with the realization that Jesus Christ is building a house. A house is a family and those born into it are brothers.
Now he is not speaking to you gentiles because the things he is saying to this audience is not true of any gentiles. He is speaking to his Hebrew brothers in the flesh.
What is he saying? He is saying that Moses built a house and there was a purpose in it, and he names it, but Christ is building his own house. Moses gave the rules for the management of the house he built but Moses was not a son of God as was Jesus. His house was functioning from the power of a servant, the flesh. The Lord Jesus would be giving the rules for the management of his own house and they would be different than those of Moses. Men would be a son of God in the house that Jesus is building and brother to Jesus Christ.

Ro 8:29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he (his son) might be the firstborn among many brethren.

Jesus is referred to as "the householder" in NT passages.

Mt 13:27 So the servants of the householder came and said unto him, Sir, didst not thou sow good seed in thy field? from whence then hath it tares?
Mt 20:1 For the kingdom of heaven is like unto a man that is an householder, which went out early in the morning to hire labourers into his vineyard.
Mt 21:33 Hear another parable: There was a certain householder, which planted a vineyard, and hedged it round about, and digged a winepress in it, and built a tower, and let it out to husbandmen, and went into a far country (read the context of these passages)

1Pe 2:5 Ye also, as lively stones, are built up a spiritual house, an holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices, acceptable to God by Jesus Christ.

The writings of the apostle Paul tells us how to behave in the house that Jesus is building.

1Ti 3:15 But if I tarry long, that thou mayest know how thou oughtest to behave thyself in the house of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and ground of the truth.

The things Peter was exempted from in his former dispensation will not work in this dispensation. There are different rules.

Read this and process it within the context of the mystery of Christ, the theme of the letter to the Ephesians and in the dispensation of the grace of God.

I have more to say later in defense of this great house God is building in this dispensation of grace.

 

[AustinC]

You are terribly deceived and do not even have a clue.

Well...I was raised in your false construct and dissection of the Bible, so, I do have a clue.
I also have spent decades reading and observing God's word. I have studied the Covenants of God and I see the work of grace from Adam to the end of time. I recognize literary forms in the Bible and I understand imagery.
You keep trying to pound a square peg into a round hole and tell me that your peg fits. I already have tried your method. Here's a tip. No matter how hard you pound, your square peg doesn't fit the round hole.

 

[JD731]

Well...I was raised in your false construct and dissection of the Bible, so, I do have a clue.
I also have spent decades reading and observing God's word. I have studied the Covenants of God and I see the work of grace from Adam to the end of time. I recognize literary forms in the Bible and I understand imagery.
You keep trying to pound a square peg into a round hole and tell me that your peg fits. I already have tried your method. Here's a tip. No matter how hard you pound, your square peg doesn't fit the round hole.

The problem you would have if you tried to actually teach it is you would have to make up stuff and rely on philosophical arguments while ignoring literal truth, like you do in John 6 and other passages.

 

[AustinC]

The problem you would have if you tried to actually teach it is you would have to make up stuff and rely on philosophical arguments while ignoring literal truth, like you do in John 6 and other passages.

Nope, I wouldn't have to make up anything. The prophets, by God's ordination, provide the imagery and connect the picture for us. Your struggle is that you will not accept or acknowledge the imagery God is using. You try to shove God into the holes with your square peg, even when the content and language scream out at you and tell you that you're using the wrong pegs.
But, you have been so indoctrinated in your system that you won't even listen to God's word as it screams at you to see the imagery and symbols. You are arrogantly going to force literalism upon an image.

As to John 6,I am not the one who refuses to read the verses that come before verse 40. Let's try it again. What do you read that leads up to verse 40?

*John 6:36-40*
But I said to you that you have seen me and yet do not believe. All that the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never cast out. For I have come down from heaven, not to do my own will but the will of him who sent me. And this is the will of him who sent me, that I should lose nothing of all that he has given me, but raise it up on the last day. For this is the will of my Father, that everyone who looks on the Son and believes in him should have eternal life, and I will raise him up on the last day.”

What does the text tell you, JD?