Featured Symbols in the word of God.

A quick note for reference:

From: Revelation: Understanding the Age | Monergism

"Perhaps the greatest impediment to rightly understanding the book of Revelation today is the rise of Dispensationalism in the last century and a half.

"With its faulty hermeneutic and broad popularity, it has left many believing in far off fairy tales and myths, wrongly dividing the word of God, and leading vast numbers down the path of one man's imagination.

"It is not the purpose of this book to refute Dispensationalism, nor every erroneous attempt at attempting to interpret Revelation; however, the detrimental impact of Dispensationalism on the understanding and use of this book since the mid-19th century demands its refutation.

"Essentially, Dispensationalism's error lies in its misinterpretation of the book's overall design.

"The book is not intended for a far-off age. It is a book intended for this present age.

"Consider how counterintuitive it would be for God to design a second Testament, comprised of four Gospels, one history book, and twenty-two letters to churches and individuals from the first century, only to leave the final book for another day. If this were the case, and Revelation was merely for a distant, far-off age, then God left the church of this age without insight and understanding of so vast a period of time. God has not left the church blind to this age, but as John said, Revelation contains insights and understanding for the present age, writing, "Blessed is he that readeth, and they that hear the words of this prophecy, and keep those things which are written therein: for the time is at hand (Rev. 1:3)."

Yet, a more central error lies behind Dispensationalism's misconception of the book, it has misinterpreted and misunderstood the place of Israel in redemptive history.

Failing to properly identify the true nature and identity of Israel in God's redemptive plan in any age is detrimental to understanding the plan and design of God.

Dispensationalism has defined Israel in accordance with the Old Covenant, not the New, and therefore their understanding of the ages is errant.

A proper understanding of Israel's place in redemptive history is key to understanding the book of Revelation.

They have been led the path of the Jews, believing the flesh important to identifying the people of God.

Add to these two errors the fact that Dispensationalism was nothing but the imagined thought of a single man, an unlearned, uneducated man, with no training in Scripture, coming from a suspect denomination, and like so many errors of the mid to late 19th century, another danger error is born of the imagination of men.

That said, let us be clear, the book of Revelation is the key book necessary to conclude Scripture, it is the capstone upon the inerrant, inspired, divine work of impeccable glory.

It is given to illuminate and summarize the work of our reigning Lord in this present age.

It explains the fullness of the godhead's work in creation.

It finishes the story. Its central theme is the final, culmination of the eternal plan brought forth in redemption and judgment.

As such, it is both an epistle and a book of prophecy. It is the book that outlines the grand scheme of God from the day of Pentecost until the return of our Lord.

It is self-interpreting on its own, as much of its metaphors and allegories are internally defined, as well as it being self-interpreting canonically as a whole, as it, along with various prophetic images of old and the allusions of the past are given to provide ample information to decode its symbolic truths.

Put at the end, it serves as the final and definite revelation of our Lord for the people of God in these final days."

 

Mr Alan Gross and Mr Austin C.

You fellows have spent much time making things up and denying the truth of the prophetic word of God, which the Revelation of Jesus Christ claims it is. You are making symbolic language out of language that is not symbolic and are not constrained by the words in the text. Re 11 concerning the two witnesses, who we may understand are Elijah and Moses.

Mr 9:1 And he said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That there be some of them that stand here, which shall not taste of death, till they have seen the kingdom of God come with power.
2 And after six days Jesus taketh [with him] Peter, and James, and John, and leadeth them up into an high mountain apart by themselves: and he was transfigured before them.
3 And his raiment became shining, exceeding white as snow; so as no fuller on earth can white them.
4 And there appeared unto them Elias with Moses: and they were talking with Jesus.
5 And Peter answered and said to Jesus, Master, it is good for us to be here: and let us make three tabernacles; one for thee, and one for Moses, and one for Elias.
6 For he wist not what to say; for they were sore afraid.
7 And there was a cloud that overshadowed them: and a voice came out of the cloud, saying, This is my beloved Son: hear him.

Mr 9:11 And they asked him, saying, Why say the scribes that Elias must first come?
12 And he answered and told them, Elias verily cometh first, and restoreth all things; and how it is written of the Son of man, that he must suffer many things, and be set at nought.

You fellows do not believe these words of Jesus and the symbolic quality of this event that is prophetic in nature and has a literal fulfillment with all the principles that are involved here. It is a foreshadowing in a vision of what is actual in history.

When Jesus Christ says in John 3 that he will be lifted up as the serpent was lifted up on the pole in the wilderness in Num 21, he refers back to a picture in type that will become reality and each feature will confirm a truth about him when it happens. The serpent represents the personification of sin, which Jesus Christ our savior became when he was lifted up, according to 2 Cor 5:21, for our sins. There is healing in a look.

That incident was not open to private interpretation like you ammillennials are practicing daily on this board, replacing the teaching of God and his prophets with your own imaginations.

IN Re 11 and all the epistle actually, you men are attempting to make things symbolic that are not symbolic in the texts. The two men are not symbolic like you say they are. The temple is not symbolic, like you say. Jesus Christ says in Matthew 24 that a temple will exist after Herod's temple is destroyed and this man of sin will offer an abominable sacrifice on it, which signals the end of one world (aion = age) and the beginning of the "day of the LORD," a prophetic theme of the scriptures, first introduced into our thinking in 840 BC and taught in this book will last the same length of time that the other 6 days of God lasted symbolically, 1000 years.

2Pe 3:7 But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.
9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.
10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.

This is the Sabbath day of the week of days, the seventh day, the last day.

Peter is the only prophet that deals with the end of the day. All other references deals with the first 3.5 years of this thousand year day when God purges all sinners from the earth and then rests until he must do it again at the end of the day.

Mt 24:1 And Jesus went out, and departed from the temple: and his disciples came to [him] for to shew him the buildings of the temple.
2 And Jesus said unto them, See ye not all these things? verily I say unto you, There shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down.
3 And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world? ( <165> aion = age)

4 And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you.
5 For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.
6 And ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars: see that ye be not troubled: for all [these things] must come to pass, but the end is not yet.

Well, okay, but when is it?

14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world (See note 1 below) for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.
15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand)

Jesus mentions two things that brings the world = aion = age to an end. The gospel of the kingdom is preached to all nations, and the abomination that makes desolate. Daniel says he offers a sacrifice on the altar in the temple. The age did not end in 70 AD when Herod's temple was destroyed and these tings that we have been reading about did not happen and no one, not a single preacher has been preaching the gospel of the kingdom to this very day.

If these things do not come to pass exactly like Jesus has said, then you guys are right to not believe what you read and I will admit it when it is proven.


(Note 1)

3625 οἰκουμένη oikoumene [oy-kou-men’-ay]

feminine participle present passive of 3611 (as noun, by implication of 1093); n f; TDNT-5:157,674; [{See TDNT 539 }]

AV-world 14, earth 1; 15

1) the inhabited earth
1a) the portion of the earth inhabited by the Greeks, in distinction from the lands of the barbarians
1b) the Roman empire, all the subjects of the empire
1c) the whole inhabited earth, the world
1d) the inhabitants of the earth, men
2) the universe, the world

 

Does this mean you will be making animal sacrifices, in a memorial remembrance of Jesus' Death, sometime in the future?

 

There are nations in the eternal state. I know you do not believe that, because you have not imagined it yet and you have only the words of scripture, which are symbolic, except when you need them not to be. Israel is one of those nations, the chief nation, with our Lord Jesus Christ sitting in Jerusalem as King of Israel, and by extension, as King over the whole world.

Re 21:1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.
2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.
3 And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, (See Note 1) and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.
4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.
5 And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful.

Re 21:24 And the nations of them which are saved shall walk in the light of it (New Jerusalem): and the kings of the earth do bring their glory and honour into it.


1 And he shewed me a pure river of water of life, clear as crystal, proceeding out of the throne of God and of the Lamb.
2 In the midst of the street of it, and on either side of the river, was there the tree of life, which bare twelve manner of fruits, and yielded her fruit every month: and the leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations.
3 And there shall be no more curse: but the throne of God and of the Lamb shall be in it; and his servants shall serve him:

14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.

Note 1.
Ps 115:16 The heaven, even the heavens, are the LORD’S: but the earth hath he given to the children of men.

A new Israel, eh?

Did you know that Paul the apostle was saved in 37/38 AD, and that he wrote his epistle to the Galatians in 49 AD, where he stated the following;

Ga 3:25 But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.
27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.
28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.
29 And if ye be Christ’s, then are ye Abraham’s seed, and heirs according to the promise.

What does that mean exactly? Well, it does not mean a woman and a man lose the distinction of being a man or a woman. Experience, if nothing else, teaches us that. It means we are equally a child of God in standing.

Consider this that Paul wrote much later in AD 58 to the Romans.

Ro 10:17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.
18 But I say, Have they not heard? Yes verily, their sound went into all the earth, and their words unto the ends of the world.
19 But I say, Did not Israel know? First Moses saith, I will provoke you to jealousy by them that are no people, and by a foolish nation I will anger you.
20 But Esaias is very bold, and saith, I was found of them that sought me not; I was made manifest unto them that asked not after me.
21 But to Israel he saith, All day long I have stretched forth my hands unto a disobedient and gainsaying people.
Rom 11:1 I say then, Hath God cast away his people? God forbid. For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin.
2 God hath not cast away his people which he foreknew. Wot ye not what the scripture saith of Elias? how he maketh intercession to God against Israel, saying,
3 Lord, they have killed thy prophets, and digged down thine altars; and I am left alone, and they seek my life.
4 But what saith the answer of God unto him? I have reserved to myself seven thousand men, who have not bowed the knee to the image of Baal.
5 Even so then at this present time (58 AD) also there is a remnant (of Israel, of which Paul was one) according to the election of grace.

Paul had not read your stuff, but if what you say is true, what he says is not.

He does not say that gentiles are made israelites, but that gentiles are added to the church that had only Jews at the first. They did not become Jews when they did but maintained their identity.

Eph 1:10 That in the dispensation of the fulness of times he might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; even in him:
11 In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will:
12 That we should be to the praise of his glory, who first trusted in Christ.
13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,
14 Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.

Read the above verses again. The Jews were first to be in Christ. V 12. Then gentiles were added in AD 40. This is what the word "also" means. It is a word of addition. The word "together" also requires that more than one be included in the body. The word "we" are Jews in the epistle, and the word "ye" are gentiles. They are all one as sons in the body but they are still distinct. The word "both" is used throughout the epistle and you should take note of it and believe it.

However, don't take my word for it, take the words of Jesus. You claim you believe in him. He thinks there is an Israel in the regeneration of the original order. See what he says.

Mt 19:27 Then answered Peter and said unto him, Behold, we have forsaken all, and followed thee; what shall we have therefore?
28 And Jesus said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed me, in the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.
29 And every one that hath forsaken houses, or brethren, or sisters, or father, or mother, or wife, or children, or lands, for my name’s sake, shall receive an hundredfold, and shall inherit everlasting life.
30 But many that are first shall be last; and the last shall be first.

I quoted a verse where Paul says he is both a Christian and a Jew at the same time twenty eight years after he was saved. He never calls a gentile a Jew after he is saved and he never says they become a son of Jacob, the meaning of Israel. He does not say he becomes a son of Jacob.

I say then, Hath God cast away his people? God forbid. For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin.
2 God hath not cast away his people which he foreknew.

You fellows are proven on these boards not to get your theology from rightly dividing the scriptures like God commanded us to do. You need to repent on bended knee. That is my prayer for you.

 

Why do I get the feeling that you are going to be put as President over the nation I am living in?

I couldn't put this book down, when I first read it.

His last sentence in the book is: "And whatever be the true sense and meaning of the passage, it certainly lends not the slightest support to the doctrine of the restoration of the Jewish nation in a coming age and its exaltation to the position of lordship over the nations of the world. [261]"

Have you ever heard such a thing?

It's like the fig tree was judged for seeing God's Son was killed and it dried up.

Brose through it. Or better yet, let him get you hooked.

Have you ever seen:
[Table of Contents]
[Next] by Philip Mauro
The Hope of Israel [1929]?


TABLE OF CONTENTS.

• Title Page, p. 3.
• Copyright Page, p. 4.
• Foreword, pp. 5-6.
• Contents, pp. 7-8.

• Chapter I, pp. 9-13.
  • The Nature and Importance of the Question, pp. 9-13.
• Chapter II, pp. 14-25.
  • How Are the O. T. Prophecies of Blessing to Israel to Be Interpreted? pp. 14-18.
  • An Illustration from Zechariah, pp. 18-25.
• Chapter III, pp. 26-32.
  • How the O. T. Prophecies Concerning Israel Are Interpreted by Paul, pp. 26-32.

• Etc., Etc.

Excerpt:
"Further, before taking up the passages of the New Testament that are relevant to our subject, we would recall to the reader's mind what is said in chapter II of this volume regarding what is commonly called the "literal" interpretation of the prophecies.

"What we specially wish the reader to understand is that the literal interpretation of a prophecy may require it to be understood in the spiritual sense.

"For, as regards Israel, Zion, Jerusalem, the Land of Promise, &c. the spiritual and heavenly thing so designated is the real thing and is often (as the N. T. abundantly proves) what was literally intended.

"In Scripture the contrast is not between the literal and the spiritual, but between the natural and the spiritual;

as it is written: "Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.

"The first man is of the earth, earthly; the second man is from the Lord from heaven" (1 Cor. 15:46, 47).

"These words reveal the rule or principle of God's order of procedure in the working out of His great purpose.

"Accordingly there is first the natural humanity and afterward the spiritual humanity; first the natural birth and afterward the spiritual birth;

first the natural or earthly Israel, Zion, temple, priesthood, sacrifices, &c., and afterward their spiritual and heavenly counterparts.

If therefore, there were nothing but this passage to guide us, it would be safe to conclude, in the absence of an express statement of Scripture to the contrary, that there is to be no reversal of God's settled order [142] of procedure, no going back from the spiritual to the natural.

"Hence there can be no return hereafter to the natural Israel, the earthly Jerusalem and the earthly temple, with its smoking altar, its Aaronic priesthood and its animal sacrifices.

"It will probably be agreed by all Bible teachers that there is no prediction in the New Testament of a national restoration of the Jewish people; and we believe it has been already shown in these pages that the testimony of the New Testament excludes the possibility of such a thing."

 

There is no prediction in the New Testament that Jesus is coming through a virgin and is the Son of God. That prophesy was in the Old Testament. His coming was the precise fulfillment of what exactly happenned in the New Testament scriptures.

What the New says about the Old;

Ro 15:4 For whatsoever things were written aforetime were written for our learning, that we through patience and comfort of the scriptures might have hope.

Jesus Christ preached to the nation of Judah and people of Israel only for 3 1/2 years, recorded by 4 different gospel writers, Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John, that the kingdom of God was at hand. I have shown with indisputable biblical proof that not even his apostles who preached the same gospel he preached even understood, much less believed that he would die on a Roman cross because both he and his kingdom was rejected by them, and after 3 days would rise again to life. They actually rebuked the Lord himself for mentioning such a thing at the end of his ministry, as I have already pointed out in this thread. They believed he was there to establish his earthly kingdom immediately.

Lu 19:11 And as they heard these things, he added and spake a parable, because he was nigh to Jerusalem, and because they thought that the kingdom of God should immediately appear.

You have believed none of it. You need to reassess your belief system because you have missed the message.

Zec 8:1 Again the word of the LORD of hosts came to me, saying, (Note: The Lord of Hosts is Jesus Christ. He is only the LORD of hosts here)
2 Thus saith the LORD of hosts; I was jealous for Zion with great jealousy, and I was jealous for her with great fury.
3 Thus saith the LORD; I am returned unto Zion, and will dwell in the midst of Jerusalem: and Jerusalem shall be called a city of truth; and the mountain of the LORD of hosts the holy mountain.
4 Thus saith the LORD of hosts; There shall yet old men and old women dwell in the streets of Jerusalem, and every man with his staff in his hand for very age.
5 And the streets of the city shall be full of boys and girls playing in the streets thereof.
6 Thus saith the LORD of hosts; If it be marvellous in the eyes of the remnant of this people in these days, should it also be marvellous in mine eyes? saith the LORD of hosts.
7 Thus saith the LORD of hosts; Behold, I will save my people from the east country, and from the west country;
8 And I will bring them, and they shall dwell in the midst of Jerusalem: and they shall be my people, and I will be their God, in truth and in righteousness.
9 Thus saith the LORD of hosts; Let your hands be strong, ye that hear in these days these words by the mouth of the prophets, which were in the day [that] the foundation of the house of the LORD of hosts was laid, that the temple might be built.
10 For before these days there was no hire for man, nor any hire for beast; neither was there any peace to him that went out or came in because of the affliction: for I set all men every one against his neighbour.
11 But now I will not be unto the residue of this people as in the former days, saith the LORD of hosts.
12 For the seed shall be prosperous; the vine shall give her fruit, and the ground shall give her increase, and the heavens shall give their dew; and I will cause the remnant of this people to possess all these things.
13 And it shall come to pass, that as ye were a curse among the heathen, O house of Judah, and house of Israel; so will I save you, and ye shall be a blessing: fear not, but let your hands be strong.
14 For thus saith the LORD of hosts; As I thought to punish you, when your fathers provoked me to wrath, saith the LORD of hosts, and I repented not:
15 So again have I thought in these days to do well unto Jerusalem and to the house of Judah: fear ye not.
16 These are the things that ye shall do; Speak ye every man the truth to his neighbour; execute the judgment of truth and peace in your gates:
17 And let none of you imagine evil in your hearts against his neighbour; and love no false oath: for all these are things that I hate, saith the LORD.
18 And the word of the LORD of hosts came unto me, saying,
19 Thus saith the LORD of hosts; The fast of the fourth month, and the fast of the fifth, and the fast of the seventh, and the fast of the tenth, shall be to the house of Judah joy and gladness, and cheerful feasts; therefore love the truth and peace.
20 Thus saith the LORD of hosts; It shall yet come to pass, that there shall come people, and the inhabitants of many cities:
21 And the inhabitants of one city shall go to another, saying, Let us go speedily to pray before the LORD, and to seek the LORD of hosts: I will go also.
22 Yea, many people and strong nations shall come to seek the LORD of hosts in Jerusalem, and to pray before the LORD.
23 Thus saith the LORD of hosts; In those days it shall come to pass, that ten men shall take hold out of all languages of the nations, even shall take hold of the skirt of him that is a Jew, saying, We will go with you: for we have heard that God is with you.

 

Did you know that the First Advent of Jesus Christ and Jesus' Second Advent are both in Revelation, in the Vision of John, when he was in the Spirit, on the Lord's Day?

First Advent: ; 5 "And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood",

Second Advent: 7 "Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen."

So, John's first Vision, of the seven churches, covers the period of time between Jesus's Ministry on earth and His Ascension, until Jesus Second Coming.

 

“The Lampstands” in these first 3 chapters of Revelation
represent the seven churches (in REVELATION 1:20)
which ARE SYMBOLIC REPRESENTATIONS
of THE SPIRITUAL STATE of VARIOUS churches
of THE LORD JESUS CHRIST

in VARIOUS PERIODS of TIME
throughout the present CHURCH AGE
between
Jesus Christ’s First and Jesus Christ’s Second Comings.

9.0. Revelation: In this “UNVAILING”

1 Corinthians 2:13;
“And this is what we speak, not in words taught us by human wisdom,
“but in Words Taught by the Spirit, expressing Spiritual Truths
in Spiritual Words."

14 “The natural man does not receive the” (SPIRITUAL)
“Things that Come from The Spirit of God.
“Because they (i.e., The Spiritual Teaching
by God’s Words in The Bible)

“are foolishness to him,
“and he” (in the natural-born
Spiritually Dead, Lost flesh, WITHOUT GOD
& WITHOUT THE HOLY SPIRIT)

“cannot understand them,
“because they are Spiritually Discerned”
(Comprehended Only by The Enablement
of The Holy Spirit).

“Thus interpreted, each individual church is,
as it were, a type, not indicating one definite period in history,
but describing SPIRITUAL conditions which are constantly repeated
in the actual SPIRITUAL life of the various congregations
(throughout The Entire Era of The Church Age)”
( Hendriksen, p.16; https://tbc.tn-biblecollege.edu/files/tbc/resthistlib/Hendricksen-W-More_Than_Conquerors_-1940.pdf)



…
Now, there is an Astounding Teaching
in The Bible concerning this point.
…
When God has Given Over individual souls
to their love of sin and Hatred of The One and Only,
True and Living, God of The Bible,
The Old Testament Prophets, Jesus, Paul, and The Apostles,
and
other New Testament Writers,
and John in The Book of Revelation,
PRONOUNCE JUDGEMENT on the lost.
…
AND THEN WHAT?
The Old Testament Prophets, Jesus, Paul, and The Apostles,
and other New Testament Writers,
and John in The Book of Revelation,
>> then <<
SPEAK in FIGURATIVE, SYMBOLIC LANGUAGE,
TO GOD’S CHILDREN!!!
…

However, the Symbolic,

Figures of Speech

ARE NOT UNDERSTOOD

by THE LOST SOULS.

THAT THE LOST WOULD NOT UNDERSTAND
IS THE ACTUAL Purpose of Jesus’ Parables
…
12 “Whoever has will be given more,
and he will have an abundance.
Whoever does not have, even what he has
will be taken away from him.

13 “This is why I Speak to them
in parables: ‘Though seeing,
they do not see; though hearing,
they do not hear or understand.’
…
14 “In them the Prophecy of Isaiah
is fulfilled:
‘You will be ever hearing
but never understanding;
you will be ever seeing
but never perceiving.…”

Matthew 13:13-14.
…

 

Again, in The “Second Section of Seven Visions”,
“The Vision of Heaven and the Seals”
REVELATION 4:1 – 7:17
begins with Jesus Christ Exalted on His Throne
Opening the scroll with Seven Seals.
***

This Second Vision, in the Book of Revelation
then, begins
with The First Advent of Jesus Christ:

The Lamb, having been Slain, now Rules in Glory.

This Second Section begins with events associated
with Jesus Christ’s First Coming in Revelation 5:5,6;

“And one of the elders said to me,
Weep not: behold, the Lion of the Tribe of Juda,
the Root of David, has Prevailed
to Open the Book, and to Loose
the Seven Seals thereof.”
*
“And I beheld, and, there, in the Midst of the Throne
and of the four beasts, and in the midst
of the elders, stood a Lamb
as it had been Slain, having Seven Horns
and Seven Eyes, which are the Seven Spirits of God
Sent Forth into all the Earth.”
*

And then, this “Second Section
of Seven VISIONS”, in REVELATION,
ends with events associated
with Jesus Christ’s Second Coming
in Revelation 6:17; 7:16, 17;

This Vision,
then also depicts Jesus' Second Advent!
*

“For the Great Day of His Wrath is Come;
and who will be able to stand?”
*

“They will hunger no more, neither thirst any more;
neither will the sunlight on them, nor any heat.
*

“For the Lamb which is in the Midst of the Throne
will Feed them, and will Lead them to
Living Fountains of Waters:
*

“and God Will Wipe Away all tears from their eyes.”

...

In the Book of Revelation,
History unfolds as a sequence of Judgments
visited upon mankind which concludes
with a depiction of the Final Judgment.
***
Revelation is a series of 7 Visions.

They run concurrently with one another,

with each covering the timespan
between Jesus’ First Advent and His Second Advent.

To ‘read’ Revelation chronologically through,

from one chapter after another,
leads to nothing but unmitigated disasters

in wild, rash, purely skeptical deductions.

Revelation is not presented that way.

Revelation is Divinly presented as Seven Visions,
which each span the same period of time,
the timespan between Jesus’ First Advent and His Second Advent, our current "Age of Churches",
and must be viewed that way, as happening SYMUTANIOUSLY.

***

 

In chapters 8-11, is the Vision
of The Seven Trumpets of Judgment.

What do they 'Symbolise', per the O.P.?

The blood of the saints is avenged;
their prayers are answered;
Judgments, of every description,
fall upon the world while the Church triumphs.

At the end of this

“THIRD SECTION of SEVEN VISIONS”,

an allusion is again made

to

The Final Judgment, Jesus' Second Advent,
The End of the World,

in REVELATION 11:15,18;

“And the seventh angel sounded;
and there were great voices in heaven,
saying,
The kingdoms of this world are become
the Kingdoms of our Lord, and of His Christ;
and He will Reign Forever and Ever”
***

“And the nations were angry,
and Your Wrath is Come,
and the Time of the Dead,
that they should be Judged,
and that You should Give Reward
to Your servants the Prophets,
and to the saints, and them
that fear Your Name, small and great;
and should Destroy them
which Destroy the Earth.”
***

 

No, I did not know that. And I do not believe that because it is not what we are told about the Lord's day. Following is an example of your imagination without any logic where you attempt to prove a silly idea.

The logic is that Jesus Christ reveals himself to John and asks John to write it and send it to the seven churches. He is recording an event that has not happened yet when he gives the vision to John, His division of his revelation is divided into three parts, which gives it the trinitarian signature, something that "all things God" is affirmed by. John is told the following;

Re 1:19 Write the things 1) which thou hast seen, and 2) the things which are, and 3) the things which shall be hereafter;

This is the division of the epistle and the prophesy. It is a prophesy;

Re 1:1 The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John: 2 Who bare record of the word of God, and of the testimony of Jesus Christ, and of all things that he saw. 3 Blessed is he that readeth, and they that hear the words of this prophecy, and keep those things which are written therein: for the time is at hand.

Logic 101:
1) What you have seen in this vision
2) The things that are when this vision occurs
3) The things which will be hereafter the things that are.

Logic:

What is past tense, the things he had seen? Here is what he had already seen, past tense, after which he was given the order.

12 And I turned to see the voice that spake with me. And being turned, I saw seven golden candlesticks; 13 And in the midst of the seven candlesticks [one] like unto the
Son of man, clothed with a garment down to the foot, and girt about the paps with a golden girdle. 14 His head and his hairs were white like wool, as white as snow; and his eyes were as a flame of fire; 15 And his feet like unto fine brass, as if they burned in a furnace; and his voice as the sound of many waters. 16 And he had in his right hand seven stars: and out of his mouth went a sharp twoedged sword: and his countenance was as the sun shineth in his strength.

17 And when I saw him, I fell at his feet as dead. And he laid his right hand upon me, saying unto me, Fear not; I am the first and the last: 18 I am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death.

This is when Jesus told him to write in the past tense first, then the present tense third, and lastly, the future tense. Read this instruction just after he had seen the Lord Jesus in his glory.:

19 Write the things which thou hast seen, and the things which are, and the things which shall be hereafter;


The next question. The things that are. The text tells us what things are with the language that we understand . It has words that are present tense words. I will show that to you briefly.

The seven stars are the angels of the seven churches:
the seven candlesticks which thou sawest are the seven churches.

Re 1:10 I was in the Spirit on the Lord’s day, and heard behind me a great voice, as of a trumpet,
11 Saying, I am Alpha and Omega, the first and the last: and, What thou seest, write in a book, and send it unto the seven churches which are in Asia; unto Ephesus, and unto Smyrna, and unto Pergamos, and unto Thyatira, and unto Sardis, and unto Philadelphia, and unto Laodicea.

The question of logic for you now is - - - Did those churches exist when John saw the vision? The answer is yes.

So, following the sequential order of past, present, and future, what logically follows present. Right, if you said future. So, in our prophesy, what is next?

Future is next in the order, and in the epistle; Look.

Re 4:1 After this I looked, and, behold, a door was opened in heaven: and the first voice which I heard was as it were of a trumpet talking with me; which said, Come up hither, and I will shew thee things which must be hereafter.

I have never attended Harvard and I figured that out. Everything from this point on is going to be things that will happen after the prophesy concerning the churches. The churches are not mentioned after the word "after" until everything is complete in Re 22.

You should reset your teaching and believe the words you read. They are logical and reasonable and they make sense.

 

Jesus first advent in Revelation:
*Revelation 12:4-6*
His tail swept down a third of the stars of heaven and cast them to the earth. And the dragon stood before the woman who was about to give birth, so that when she bore her child he might devour it. She gave birth to a male child, one who is to rule all the nations with a rod of iron, but her child was caught up to God and to his throne, and the woman fled into the wilderness, where she has a place prepared by God, in which she is to be nourished for 1,260 days.

Jesus second advent in Revelation:
*Revelation 19:11-16*
Then I saw heaven opened, and behold, a white horse! The one sitting on it is called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he judges and makes war. His eyes are like a flame of fire, and on his head are many diadems, and he has a name written that no one knows but himself. He is clothed in a robe dipped in blood, and the name by which he is called is The Word of God. And the armies of heaven, arrayed in fine linen, white and pure, were following him on white horses. From his mouth comes a sharp sword with which to strike down the nations, and he will rule them with a rod of iron. He will tread the winepress of the fury of the wrath of God the Almighty. On his robe and on his thigh he has a name written, King of kings and Lord of lords.

 

Which of the words in the text you quoted do you think are speaking of a literal event and which do you teach is symbolic only, although they have no object to which they are the symbols?

Post these words again and underline the literal and leave the symbolic without a highlight. Thanks.

 

From the first passage:
"male child, one who is to rule all the nations"

From the second passage:
"he will rule them"

The first passage is telling us that Satan was waiting to kill the Promised, Anointed One, who was to come from the promise of Genesis 3:15. We understand that the Devil tried to kill the line from which the Anointed One would come, but God protected the Anointed One and the Promised One now sits on the Throne.
From the Second Passage we see that the Promised One is going to return to destroy the Devil and his minions while the saints rejoice.

Our difference is that you see everything as future event while I recognize we are and have been in the Tribulation from the Resurrection to the present. Revelation 11 is a symbolic presentation of history, showing us that the battle has always been between Satan and God. The events on the earth are a result of the spiritual war (Ephesians 6) that has played itself out from the Garden onward to the present.

 

In 94 AD Jesus Christ testified about what was coming in the future and had John the apostle to write it in an epistle. Three times in the epistle he calls it "the testimony of Jesus Christ." (see note A below) He is still alive and abiding in heaven and sitting at the right hand of the Father on his throne prosecuting his office as Priest or intercessor for the redeemed during this time some 64 years after he was crucified and rose from the dead, the testimony of the passage.

Acts 3:13 The God of Abraham, and of Isaac, and of Jacob, the God of our fathers, hath glorified his Son Jesus; whom ye delivered up, and denied him in the presence of Pilate, when he was determined to let him go.
14 But ye denied the Holy One and the Just, and desired a murderer to be granted unto you;
15 And killed the Prince of life, whom God hath raised from the dead; whereof we are witnesses.
16 And his name through faith in his name hath made this man strong, whom ye see and know: yea, the faith which is by him hath given him this perfect soundness in the presence of you all.
17 And now, brethren, I wot that through ignorance ye did it, as did also your rulers.
18 But those things, which God before had shewed by the mouth of all his prophets, that Christ should suffer, he hath so fulfilled.
19 Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord;
20 And he shall send Jesus Christ, which before was preached unto you:
21 Whom the heaven must receive until the times of restitution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began.
22 For Moses truly said unto the fathers, A prophet shall the Lord your God raise up unto you of your brethren, like unto me; him shall ye hear in all things whatsoever he shall say unto you.
23 And it shall come to pass, that every soul, which will not hear that prophet, shall be destroyed from among the people. (Note: This has not yet happened as late as the year AD 2023)
24 Yea, and all the prophets from Samuel and those that follow after, as many as have spoken, have likewise foretold of these days.
25 Ye are the children of the prophets, and of the covenant which God made with our fathers, saying unto Abraham, And in thy seed shall all the kindreds of the earth be blessed.

The 1260 days is the time of the Great Tribulation when his prophesy will be fulfilled and all rebels will be destroyed off the earth and Jesus will rule those few that are left with a rod of iron. John is doing what he was told to do at the first. Wrtite the things that shall be here after (the churches). The intended goal of it all is in verse 25. Jesus Christ intends to bless all the world through Abraham's physical seed after all the rebels are destroyed off the earth and righteousness can reign. This is the testimony of Jesus Christ

NOTE A
Re 1:2 Who bare record of the word of God, and of the testimony of Jesus Christ, and of all things that he saw.
Re 1:9 I John, who also am your brother, and companion in tribulation, and in the kingdom and patience of Jesus Christ, was in the isle that is called Patmos, for the word of God, and for the testimony of Jesus Christ.
Re 12:17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

There is safety in believing the words. The style of writing does not make the words untrue.

 

Here's where I believe you are wrong. Jesus gave John a Revelation about why all the things that happen on this earth, happen. It's because there was a rebellion in heaven. Michael and his angels waged war on Satan and his angels. Satan was thrown down to earth and out of heaven. He cannot cause havoc there, but he has been appointed a season here on earth. Satan tried to destroy the Promised One and the line from which the Promised One would come, but he failed. Jesus won. Satan tries to cause havoc with the true Israel of God, the Church, and vent his fury out on the church, but God keeps thwarting him. God provides us a refuge for a time period, but there is coming a day when the entire earth will be under the rule of the beast (at present, humanism does not fully rule). Then, the Church will be fully underground and will be persecuted. The second beast, the false prophet, fully convinced the progressive church of his spiritual support for the beast (humanism - liberation theology). The tares are exposed from the wheat. This is the time when God sends his sickle to reap the harvest and the tares are burned up while the wheat is kept unto eternal life.

We are in the Tribulation right now. There is, at present, an ebb and flow of God's protection in the world today, but that will end when the final antichrist is revealed.

You keep thinking all this is future, which means the Revelation would be irrelevant to the churches who read the letter, but the Revelation has always been relevant to every generation since every generation has been living in the Tribulation.

 

I read the whole. I understand that the tribulation ebbs and flows, with the world being ruled by the beast, after God has kept the church in the wilderness for a time, times, and half a time (which is the present).
Jesus comments have dual meaning. At the time, it had to do with the destruction of Jerusalem, but it goes beyond that to extend to the entire world. When we look at the suffering the church has endured in the 20th and now 21st century, we cannot deny that we are in the tribulation. Just ask a Chinese brother or an Iranian brother, etc...

*Mark 13:14-23*

“But when you see the abomination of desolation standing where he ought not to be (let the reader understand), then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains. Let the one who is on the housetop not go down, nor enter his house, to take anything out, and let the one who is in the field not turn back to take his cloak. And alas for women who are pregnant and for those who are nursing infants in those days! Pray that it may not happen in winter. For in those days there will be such tribulation as has not been from the beginning of the creation that God created until now, and never will be. And if the Lord had not cut short the days, no human being would be saved. But for the sake of the elect, whom he chose, he shortened the days. And then if anyone says to you, ‘Look, here is the Christ!’ or ‘Look, there he is!’ do not believe it. For false christs and false prophets will arise and perform signs and wonders, to lead astray, if possible, the elect. But be on guard; I have told you all things beforehand.

 

You have missed what Jesus said. He had an adjective for tribulation. He said there was a special time coming that was "great" tribulation. That is not your common ordinary tribulation. Further, he states in his description that it is like no other time that has ever been in the world and is like no other time that will ever be in the world after it. Here are his exact words;

Mt 24:21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world (2889 = kosmos = the earth) to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
I remind you that this will include the awful judgement of the flood of Noah's days.

Are you just not buying what Jesus said about this time of judgement that he calls in other passages "the day of the LORD?"

 

I didn't miss it. Neither did the church when they fled Jerusalem before the drive and fall of Jerusalem in 70AD.
I have not missed the great tribulation of 1938-45 in Europe or the great tribulation in Communist Russia, China, North Korea, etc, as well as the great tribulation in Muslim countries.
JD the tribulation is all around you and merely because God has chosen to presently keep you in the wilderness for a time, does not mean we aren't in the tribulation.
Now, will humanism conquer the world someday and will the beast with his second beast bring worldwide terror to the elect, those with the mark of God? Yes. The US will fall headlong into the jaws of the beast and we will suffer death and persecution. But, God tells us the victory is already won. We have no need to fear. Our King has won. We rest in this eternal truth.