The Truth About the Biblical Act of Predestination.

[canadyjd]

Point 1) above;

I do not think that is true. Follow the logic in these verses below;

9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.
10 And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.
11 But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.
12 Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh.
13 For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.
14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.
15 For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father.
16 The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:
17 And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.
18 For I reckon that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us.
19 For the earnest expectation of the creature waiteth for the manifestation of the sons.

Now, if we are children of God, why must we be adopted to receive the inheritance" It is because of the new body that we will receive at our glorification. It is not the old body we possessed when we were first saved revamped. It is a totally new body. It is a glorified body. Collectively, it is the body of Christ, who is it's head. He is in heaven now and because we are vitally connected to him, it can be said that we sit together in heavenly places in Christ.

Point 2) above.

You did not say where in Romans that he said he knew us before the foundation of the world.

The foundation of the world phrase does not appear in the epistle to the Romans. The foreknowledge that Paul is dealing with in Romans is in the context of the Israelite people with whom God had a covenant relationship with and to whom he gave many promises. So, the foreknowledge means knowing before "this present time." It does not stretch that knowledge out before the foundation of the world. We will have an opportunity to discuss this more later.

Point 3) above.

It is not true that God knew us in a personal way before the foundation of the world. He does not say he does. He foreknew his covenant nation but as we saw above, he did not know them before the foundation of the world, but before this present time. He did not foreknow the gentiles at all and he does not say he did. What he does says about time past, which is before he opened the door of faith to gentiles, is posted below.

11 Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands;
12 That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:
13 But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ.

Following in verse 14 is the institution of the dispensation of the grace of God in time. It is the taking away and changing the rules in order to accept someone else into the family.That is the meaning of dispensation.

14 For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us;
15 Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;

Now the "both" here are Jewish believers and gentile believers. Don't this make sense fellows? Everything that was in place that would hinder this union has been taken away so this new man, or this new body can be formed. Think about the wisdom of God in this.


16 And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby:
17 And came and preached peace to you which were afar off, and to them that were nigh.
18 For through him we both have access by one Spirit unto the Father.

Point 4) above

Do not interpret the scriptures in the context of some ones theological system that will not allow you to exercise your own mind and reason.

Nothing you posted has anything to do with the meaning of the word “predestined”.

Just saying, “I don’t think this is true” really doesn’t address the meaning of the word.

peace to you

 

[JD731]

Nothing you posted has anything to do with the meaning of the word “predestined”.

Just saying, “I don’t think this is true” really doesn’t address the meaning of the word.

peace to you

Well canadyjd, the prefix, "pre" before the word destination means something. I cannot think of a better meaning than the destination has been predetermined and is not open to change. Then when I read the context and find out the destination is to glorification in a new body, I feel I must consider that is what i am to believe is the destination of those who have trusted in Christ. What do you think the "manifestation of the children of God" is? Only the children of God are going to be glorified with a new body.

There is even more in the context that we have not discussed yet. Yet none of what is left to talk about detracts from the facts of glorification as the destination that is predetermined.

Really, I do not see why reading plain language is so difficult. Follow the logic and be reasonable. If the scriptures correct you then say "amen." That is a purpose they are good at.

 

[canadyjd]

Well canadyjd, the prefix, "pre" before the word destination means something. I cannot think of a better meaning than the destination has been predetermined and is not open to change. Then when I read the context and find out the destination is to glorification in a new body, I feel I must consider that is what i am to believe is the destination of those who have trusted in Christ. What do you think the "manifestation of the children of God" is? Only the children of God are going to be glorified with a new body.

There is even more in the context that we have not discussed yet. Yet none of what is left to talk about detracts from the facts of glorification as the destination that is predetermined.

Really, I do not see why reading plain language is so difficult. Follow the logic and be reasonable. If the scriptures correct you then say "amen." That is a purpose they are good at.

I appreciate your view, but the word “predestination” is not the Greek word, but a translation of the Greek word. It is a good translation, I think, but since there was no specific word for predestined in Greek, that I know of, the English “predestined” is pretty close.

The Greek word means to mark out beforehand. It is a construction term.

Imagine you live in Ephesus or Rome in the first century. There were constant building projects, magnificent buildings and monuments. Everyone would understand the Greek word for “mark out beforehand”.

A builder must purchase the property, then do the necessary preparation to the property before the construction begins.

Then Paul comes along and is attempting to explain their relationship with God. He tells them God “marked them out” before the foundation of the world. They would understand God has chosen them, they are his property and He did so from the foundation of the world. Paul tells them God knew them (understood in terms of a relationship) before the foundation of the world.

He tells them their purchase price is the blood of Jesus. He tells them God is building all of them into the “one new man” made of Jews and Gentiles.

The first century believers would have no problem understanding Paul’s comments. They knew they were chosen/elect of God before the foundation of the world. They were God’s workmanship, His property, that He brought into a right relationship with Himself (saved) for a specific purpose… to do the work God had appointed for them before the foundation of the world.

It really isn’t complicated when you understand the meaning of the words in the context they were written.

peace to you

 

[AVL1984]

Predestination is not a Reformed doctrine. It is a Bible doctrine. Bible doctrines have context. Reformed doctrines do not. My comments were in a Bible context. We need to know how to process what God has told us. It has nothing to do with Calvinism except when Calvinists pervert it and use it to exalt themselves. I cannot help it if their response is adversarial, or if putting my comments under the heading of sound Baptist doctrine causes Calvinistic responses.

If you are incensed by that, then I do not know how to advise you going forward.

Since it is one of the major TENETS of Calvinism, I truly believe it ought to be kept in the Calvinist "kingdom" on this site. Seems like the Calvinisitst come out of the woodwork when "predestination" is mentioned ANYWHERE....They permeate every site their on if left unchecked. That is my only concern.

 

[AVL1984]

This is the

Baptist Theology & Bible Study forum

on the BAPTISTBOARD site.

The thread topic is,"
The Truth About the Biblical Act of Predestination.

If you would like to talk about something other than Predestination, you are always welcome to start a new thread, I believe.

You seem to always keep trying to DEMAND or instruct me to do something to stay away from certain posts. YOU, sir, ARE NOT a moderator or administrator, so do yourself a favor and stop trying to be something you're not.

 

[Alan Gross]

You seem to always keep trying to DEMAND or instruct me to do something to stay away from certain posts.

I sure hope you don't think you have any example of that.

Maybe, talk to RighteousTemperance about it. Better yet? Get some.

So, this is your only example where you say I "always keep trying to DEMAND or instruct me to do something to stay away from certain posts".

If you would like to talk about something other than Predestination, you are always welcome to start a new thread, I believe.

What was it, again, that you were demanding the moderators or administrators do?

Oh yeah, you desided you wanted to have them cut some us out of the discussion, because you discriminate against Calvinists, for some reason.

And, therefore, it is your executive decision to reject out of hand and disenfranchise one particular brand of poster, you think someone is.

Good grief! Don't we have a "Calvinisim" forum on this site already? ADMINISTRATORS...why not keep it there?????

YOU, sir, ARE NOT a moderator or administrator, so do yourself a favor and stop trying to be something you're not.

Do you think you are an inequitable moderator or administrator or something?do yourself a favor and get some religion other than the one you are practicing.

Is this how you are going to tell the world The Truth about Predestination?

I just thought I better ask this off jump street.

You are trying to be a little doctorial and controlling, by the Determinant Counsel of God.

Calling names and trying to discredit me will in no way improve your ability of comprehension and logic, none of which you and others like you demonstrate in these forums.

Who on the planet earth is better equiped to handle this subject and present a Biblical Defence of the Doctrine of Predestination than bunch of Calvinistic Baptists?

I demand that you use the 'Report' button.

They're looking for a way to kick me off, since they don't agree with my stance on hardly anything.

Maybe, your little spasmodic fit of goodness will be enough to do it.

Dunno.

At any rate; Good grief! Charley Brown, consider yourself most highly Blessed of God Almighty, Who we Worship in the Cause of God and Truth.

This is the

Baptist Theology & Bible Study forum

on the BAPTISTBOARD site.

The thread topic is,"
The Truth About the Biblical Act of Predestination.

 

[canadyjd]

Well canadyjd, the prefix, "pre" before the word destination means something. I cannot think of a better meaning than the destination has been predetermined and is not open to change….

Well, the English word “predestination” is not a perfect match for the Greek word used. So “pre” before “destination” really doesn’t apply.

The Greek word has nothing to do with traveling. It is a construction term, as I have explained before.

peace to you

 

[Alan Gross]

Now, where is your name in the scriptures to affirm your individual election?

What a truly bazaar, dictatorial and controlling boundary rule presented as the most desperate presupposition ever, typical of a malevolent ruler with total power.

The word 'evil' comes to mind, for some reason.

An equally stringent criteria to what God has? God says, "Now, where is your name in the scriptures to affirm your individual election?"

No. God does not require the standard of showing Him our name in scripture.

So, little did I know when I wrote the following that JD731 would exceed my expectations and even try to exalt himself above the throne of God standards?

Does this mean you have the mind of God through the words of God and others, with whom you disagree, do not believe a single word of God in any sensible manner?

Is this how you are going to tell the world The Truth about Predestination?

I just thought I better ask this off jump street.

You are trying to be a little doctorial and controlling, by the Determinant Counsel of God.

...

And yet, we still called it.

3 To him the porter openeth; and the sheep hear his voice: and he calleth his own sheep by name, and leadeth them out. Jn 10

Very cool, kyredneck.

He didn't ask me, but can I play?

Since Jesus "ever liveth to make intersession", it was Predestined in His Prayer for me that He has Prayed from Eternity Past, always, would Absolutely be Answered and that Alan Gross, having been Elected in Eternity Past would then, in this life, believe on Jesus, through His Word.

John 17:20:

"Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word;"

That would be me.

 

[JD731]

I appreciate your view, but the word “predestination” is not the Greek word, but a translation of the Greek word. It is a good translation, I think, but since there was no specific word for predestined in Greek, that I know of, the English “predestined” is pretty close.

The Greek word means to mark out beforehand. It is a construction term.

Imagine you live in Ephesus or Rome in the first century. There were constant building projects, magnificent buildings and monuments. Everyone would understand the Greek word for “mark out beforehand”.

A builder must purchase the property, then do the necessary preparation to the property before the construction begins.

Then Paul comes along and is attempting to explain their relationship with God. He tells them God “marked them out” before the foundation of the world. They would understand God has chosen them, they are his property and He did so from the foundation of the world. Paul tells them God knew them (understood in terms of a relationship) before the foundation of the world.

He tells them their purchase price is the blood of Jesus. He tells them God is building all of them into the “one new man” made of Jews and Gentiles.

The first century believers would have no problem understanding Paul’s comments. They knew they were chosen/elect of God before the foundation of the world. They were God’s workmanship, His property, that He brought into a right relationship with Himself (saved) for a specific purpose… to do the work God had appointed for them before the foundation of the world.

It really isn’t complicated when you understand the meaning of the words in the context they were written.

peace to you

Sorry, but that is simply false. Not even the context and the words will allow for such a position. The believers in Christ since the cross are predestined to be glorified when they are given the new glorious bodies.This is the blessed hope of the church. It is to be an individual resurrection and a collective resurrection of the corruptibles, the saints that have died, and also those who remain the mortals, and are yet alive at the coming of Christ for his bride, . His bride will be clothed upon with glory to meet him in the air and to go with him to the Father's house.

1Co 15:51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.
54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.

Php 3:17 Brethren, be followers together of me, and mark them which walk so as ye have us for an ensample.
18 (For many walk, of whom I have told you often, and now tell you even weeping, that they are the enemies of the cross of Christ:
19 Whose end is destruction, whose God is their belly, and whose glory is in their shame, who mind earthly things)

20 For our conversation (citizenship) is in heaven; from whence also we look for the Saviour, the Lord Jesus Christ:
21 Who shall change our vile body, that it may be fashioned like unto his glorious body, according to the working whereby he is able even to subdue all things unto himself.
55 O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory?
56 The sting of death is sin; and the strength of sin is the law.
57 But thanks be to God, which giveth us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.

1Jo 3:1 Behold, what manner of love the Father hath bestowed upon us, that we should be called the sons of God: therefore the world knoweth us not, because it knew him not.
2 Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.
3 And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is pure.

Eph 1:3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ:
4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:
5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,
6 To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved.
7 In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace;
8 Wherein he hath abounded toward us in all wisdom and prudence;
9 Having made known unto us the mystery of his will, according to his good pleasure which he hath purposed in himself:
10 That in the dispensation of the fulness of times he might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; even in him:
11 In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will:
12 That we should be to the praise of his glory, who first trusted in Christ.

All our words of Rom 8 are in Eph 1 except for the word forknowledge, for the reason I have already explained. All these quotes are speaking of the same predestination to glory.

The Lord is good.

 

[kyredneck]

Since it is one of the major TENETS of Calvinism, I truly believe it ought to be kept in the Calvinist "kingdom" on this site. Seems like the Calvinisitst come out of the woodwork when "predestination" is mentioned ANYWHERE....They permeate every site their on if left unchecked. That is my only concern.

Take note, it was NOT the Calvinists, it was Dispy anti-Calvinist/anti-Sovereign Grace/anti-Monergist @JD731 that started the thread.

 

[Alan Gross]

Sorry, but that is simply false.

Sorry, canadyjd, I get the feeling this authoritative determination might be by fiat Degree.

Other than that JD731 quotes The Bible alright.

Most all of them had to do with The Consummation of the Age, but that, too, was Predestinated, along with the following he posted:

Concerning:

"Whom He Predestinated, He also Called",

Predestination and Election, from Eternity Past, unto salvation in this life; "wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved."

4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,

6 To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved.

Then, regarding:

"Whom He Justified", in salvation "them He also Glorified", which is the saved soul's

Future Inheritance, "being Predestinated" by The Eternal Godhead, in Eternity Past.

10 That in the dispensation of the fulness of times he might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; even in him:

11 In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will:

 

[JD731]

1) Are you saying that you are not a Dispensationalist and that you do not believe that 'Jews are God's chosen people', i.e., make a distinction between Jew and non-Jew?

There was a time when Dispensationalists here on the BB took no offense with the abbreviation 'Dispy', but alas, the skin is thin and the times are woke.

2) FYI, there are Bible Believers from every theology and eschatology, only some are not as bigoted as others.



3) 2 Beware of the dogs, beware of the evil workers, beware of the concision:
3 for we are the circumcision, who worship by the Spirit of God, and glory in Christ Jesus, and have no confidence in the flesh: Phil 3



4) 3 To him the porter openeth; and the sheep hear his voice: and he calleth his own sheep by name, and leadeth them out. Jn 10

Point 1) above

There are not many pages in scripture where it is not affirmed that Israel is God's chosen people.
In 58 AD paul, A saved man since 37/38 AD affirmed his Jewisness and placed himself squarely as a member of the people of God. Read it yourself.

Ro 11:1 I say then, Hath God cast away his people? God forbid. For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin.
2 God hath not cast away his people which he foreknew.

....and BTW, look at who he said God foreknew. It is just unwise to argue with the scriptures of truth.

Point 2) above

They are not Bible believers if they do not believe what the Bible says. Sorry!

Point #3) above

Dogs are symbolic of gentiles. The concision are unbelieving and antichrist Jews. Physical circumcision typified the spititual cutting away of personal sins by the Spirit of God.

Point #4 Above

I have said this befoire but I will continue to say it. The apostle Paul, the apostle to the gentiles, the man who gave the doctrines of the church, never called any gentile ever a sheep and he did not call the church sheep. He used the word one time and it was in Rom 8, clearly in a Jewish context.

Anywhere you see the word sheep in a symbolic setting you are looking at physical children of Abraham. That is just the way it is. There are no exceptions.

Jer 50:17 Israel is a scattered sheep; the lions have driven him away: first the king of Assyria hath devoured him; and last this Nebuchadrezzar king of Babylon hath broken his bones.

There is great value in believing the words and honoring context of scripture.

 

[Alan Gross]

They are not Bible believers if they do not believe what the Bible says. Sorry!

Well, you did say, " Sorry!"

That is just the way it is. There are no exceptions.

And there we have it, by God.

...and BTW, look at who he said God foreknew. It is just unwise to argue with the scriptures of truth.

And maybe on the whole range of Bible topics it covers?

From cover to cover?

 

[JD731]

Take note, it was NOT the Calvinists, it was Dispy anti-Calvinist/anti-Sovereign Grace/anti-Monergist @JD731 that started the thread.

Grace had it's beginning as a dispensation with the inclusion of the gentiles into the fellowship of Christian saints in Acts 10. This was after God himself taught Peter the great dispensational truth using the dietary laws, which he made null and void to a strict law keeping Jew, and then sent him to open the door of faith to the gentiles. This is something he would never have done except for the intervention of God himself.

There is no such Bible doctrine of "sovereign" grace. The idea of it is just plain silly.

Dispensation.
Exemption from a rule or usual requirement.

 

[Alan Gross]

Dispensation.
Exemption from a rule or usual requirement

Then Imposing whatever rule or irregular requirements on your subjects.

Not at all Christlike, but a Dispy anti-Calvinist/anti-Sovereign Grace/anti-Monergist who thinks that amounts to anything special, but still super de duper enough to say:

There is no such Bible doctrine of "sovereign" grace. The idea of it is just plain silly.

How do you like that little oppressive authoritative government rule?

 

[canadyjd]

Sorry, but that is simply false. Not even the context and the words will allow for such a position. The believers in Christ since the cross are predestined to be glorified when they are given the new glorious bodies.This is the blessed hope of the church. It is to be an individual resurrection and a collective resurrection of the corruptibles, the saints that have died, and also those who remain the mortals, and are yet alive at the coming of Christ for his bride, . His bride will be clothed upon with glory to meet him in the air and to go with him to the Father's house.

1Co 15:51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.
54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.

Php 3:17 Brethren, be followers together of me, and mark them which walk so as ye have us for an ensample.
18 (For many walk, of whom I have told you often, and now tell you even weeping, that they are the enemies of the cross of Christ:
19 Whose end is destruction, whose God is their belly, and whose glory is in their shame, who mind earthly things)

20 For our conversation (citizenship) is in heaven; from whence also we look for the Saviour, the Lord Jesus Christ:
21 Who shall change our vile body, that it may be fashioned like unto his glorious body, according to the working whereby he is able even to subdue all things unto himself.
55 O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory?
56 The sting of death is sin; and the strength of sin is the law.
57 But thanks be to God, which giveth us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.

1Jo 3:1 Behold, what manner of love the Father hath bestowed upon us, that we should be called the sons of God: therefore the world knoweth us not, because it knew him not.
2 Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.
3 And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is pure.

Eph 1:3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ:
4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:
5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,
6 To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved.
7 In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace;
8 Wherein he hath abounded toward us in all wisdom and prudence;
9 Having made known unto us the mystery of his will, according to his good pleasure which he hath purposed in himself:
10 That in the dispensation of the fulness of times he might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; even in him:
11 In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will:
12 That we should be to the praise of his glory, who first trusted in Christ.

All our words of Rom 8 are in Eph 1 except for the word forknowledge, for the reason I have already explained. All these quotes are speaking of the same predestination to glory.

The Lord is good.

And so we disagree about the meaning of the word “predestined” thanks for the conversation

God is always good

BTW, when Jesus said, “I have other sheep not of this fold”, He was referring to Gentiles chosen, by name, for salvation.

BTW #2, when Paul told the Ephesians that the sacrifice of Jesus on the cross tore down the dividing wall (Old Testament Law) between Jew and Gentile and that God was making them “one new man”, that the OT Law was abolished, he acknowledge the truth there is no separate future for Israel and the Church. We are “one new man”. We are, together, “the Israel of God”.

There will be no new Temple, no 1000 year reign on earth, nor separate future for Israel.

peace to you

 

[AVL1984]

I sure hope you don't think you have any example of that.

Maybe, talk to RighteousTemperance about it. Better yet? Get some.

Blow it out your wadzoo! You've been telling me to do this, or do that for several threads now. Grow up.

So, this is your only example where you say I "always keep trying to DEMAND or instruct me to do something to stay away from certain posts".

If it were my only example, I wouldn't have mentioned it. Grow up.



What was it, again, that you were demanding the moderators or administrators do?

I ASKED them if we didn't have a Calvinist forum, which we do. Prevaricate much, Alan? I think you do. I DEMANDED nothing of them. Grow up.

Oh yeah, you desided you wanted to have them cut some us out of the discussion, because you discriminate against Calvinists, for some reason.

Another PREVARIATION from the son of the father of lies. I don't discriminate against anyone, nor have I tried to cut ANYONE out of discussion. GROW UP!

And, therefore, it is your executive decision to reject out of hand and disenfranchise one particular brand of poster, you think someone is.

Further prevarication from you. Do you always lie like this? Grow up!





Do you think you are an inequitable moderator or administrator or something?do yourself a favor and get some religion other than the one you are practicing.

If I WERE an administrator, this type of thread would be staying in the Calvinist thread. But, I'm not, therefore the QUESTION directed to the administrators. My religion is just fine...I'm not the one who believes God sends people to Hell arbitrarily before the "foundation of the world," nor denies that GOD so LOVED THE WORLD that he sent his only begotten son......Grow up!





Who on the planet earth is better equiped to handle this subject and present a Biblical Defence of the Doctrine of Predestination than bunch of Calvinistic Baptists?
Asking the moderators a question makes me a spaz? Don't think so.
Anyone who believes that GOD sent his only begotten Son to die for the sins of the world, not just a select few. If he did what Calvinists allege, then he is a liar, and so is his word. GROW UP!

I demand that you use the 'Report' button.

I don't demand anything of you except that you stop prevaricating and GROW UP!

They're looking for a way to kick me off, since they don't agree with my stance on hardly anything.

Boo hoo! Playing the "victim" isn't becoming of you. GROW UP!

Maybe, your little spasmodic fit of goodness will be enough to do it.

Asking the administrators a question makes me a spaz or what I raksed about spasmodic? You sound like the whiney Democrat. Grow up!

Dunno.

That's obvious. Grow up!

At any rate; Good grief! Charley Brown, consider yourself most highly Blessed of God Almighty, Who we Worship in the Cause of God and Truth.

Really? Ad hominem attacks? GROW UP! I am very blessed by God Almighty. Grow up.

 

[AVL1984]

Take note, it was NOT the Calvinists, it was Dispy anti-Calvinist/anti-Sovereign Grace/anti-Monergist @JD731 that started the thread.

I never stated otherwise, did I? I only asked a question. Get real.

 

[AVL1984]

Take note, it was NOT the Calvinists, it was Dispy anti-Calvinist/anti-Sovereign Grace/anti-Monergist @JD731 that started the thread.

I never stated otherwise, did I? I only asked a question. Get real.

 

[JD731]

And so we disagree about the meaning of the word “predestined” thanks for the conversation

God is always good

BTW, when Jesus said, “I have other sheep not of this fold”, He was referring to Gentiles chosen, by name, for salvation.

BTW #2, when Paul told the Ephesians that the sacrifice of Jesus on the cross tore down the dividing wall (Old Testament Law) between Jew and Gentile and that God was making them “one new man”, that the OT Law was abolished, he acknowledge the truth there is no separate future for Israel and the Church. We are “one new man”. We are, together, “the Israel of God”.

There will be no new Temple, no 1000 year reign on earth, nor separate future for Israel.

peace to you

You are making statements to me and expecting me to believe them in the same way these statements were made to you and you did believe them. Without a single thread of evidence.

When I make the statement that God never, ever, no never, refers to one gentile or a number of gentiles with the word "sheep" and you think I am wrong, your first reaction should be to quote God calling gentiles sheep. It is you who are insisting that the metaphor "sheep" is to apply to gentiles. You have two men posting agreements with you. This means you are leading men astray and teaching them something that God has not said and influencing them to relegate the word of God to submit to your claims.

The metaphors in the scriptures are of extreme importance and if you do not try to understand them then you have zero chance of coming to sound doctrine. The metaphor for gentiles is "dog." It is used several times in scripture to finger gentiles. Here is just one from the wonderful Lord Jesus Christ.

Mt 15:21 Then Jesus went thence, and departed into the coasts of Tyre and Sidon.
22 And, behold, a woman of Canaan came out of the same coasts, and cried unto him, saying, Have mercy on me, O Lord, thou Son of David; my daughter is grievously vexed with a devil.
23 But he answered her not a word. And his disciples came and besought him, saying, Send her away; for she crieth after us.
24 But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.
25 Then came she and worshipped him, saying, Lord, help me.
26 But he answered and said, It is not meet to take the children’s bread, and to cast it to dogs.
27 And she said, Truth, Lord: yet the dogs eat of the crumbs which fall from their masters’ table.
28 Then Jesus answered and said unto her, O woman, great is thy faith: be it unto thee even as thou wilt. And her daughter was made whole from that very hour.

Is it in the mind of God to save the dogs? Here is an instance when we find out it is, and when it is.

A couple of dogs comes to Jesus while he is ministering to the sheep. Watch it. This was during the last week of Jesus earthly ministry.

Joh 12:20 And there were certain Greeks among them that came up to worship at the feast:
21 The same came therefore to Philip, which was of Bethsaida of Galilee, and desired him, saying, Sir, we would see Jesus.
22 Philip cometh and telleth Andrew: and again Andrew and Philip tell Jesus.
23 And Jesus answered them, saying, The hour is come, that the Son of man should be glorified.(we have understood this to mean he will be the firstborn son of God from the grave at his resurrection)
24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except a corn of wheat fall into the ground and die, it abideth alone: but if it die, it bringeth forth much fruit.
25 He that loveth his life shall lose it; and he that hateth his life in this world shall keep it unto life eternal.
26 If any man serve me, let him follow me; and where I am, there shall also my servant be: if any man serve me, him will my Father honour.

You men who do not believe words and cannot discern the metaphors will likely be unable to understand that he will receive the dogs after his glorification when he will enter into his office as the perfect Priest and mediate between gentiles and God through his own blood sacrifice for them. I, by God's grace, understand this.

The number 24 in the scriptures is associated with the priesthood. Salvation of the dogs is the much fruit of his sacrifice.

When you make the following incredible statement, you in effect admit that you have no confidence in the words and promises of God;

There will be no new Temple, no 1000 year reign on earth, nor separate future for Israel.

The government of God over the earth is what the entire Bible is about. The restitution of all things to it's pristine state is the aim of God that will be completed by him and those who serve him.

To the 12 Jewish apostles, who are Christians and are the foundation stones of the church of Jesus Christ (Ep 2:19 Now therefore ye [gentiles in context], are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints [Jewish believers in Christ], and of the household of God;
20 And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone;
21 In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord:
22 In whom ye also are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit), he said the following in his conversation with these men;

Mt 19:27 Then answered Peter and said unto him, Behold, we have forsaken all, and followed thee; what shall we have therefore?
28 And Jesus said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed me, in the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.
29 And every one that hath forsaken houses, or brethren, or sisters, or father, or mother, or wife, or children, or lands, for my name’s sake, shall receive an hundredfold, and shall inherit everlasting life.

Twelve foundational members of the church of Jesus Christ sitting upon 12 thrones of Israel as judges. And you say there is no Israel but the church and Israel is the same without explaining how the apostles can be foundational to something that predates them by thousands of years. Thrones are in the context of government. Thrones are in the eternal state on earth in Re 21 where a definite distinction is made between the church of Jesus Christ and the state of Israel.



Ac 3:17 And now, brethren, I wot that through ignorance ye did it, as did also your rulers.
19 Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord;
20 And he shall send Jesus Christ, which before was preached unto you:
21 Whom the heaven must receive until the times of restitution of all things (a theocratic government), which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began.

These are the words you and the men do not seem to accept..