The Inward True Jew

[AustinC]

Still, was it his goal to scare people, which he did accomplish effectively. Was it his job to use fear and hellfire? What was his motivation? Wasn’t he usurping the job of the Holy Ghost? After all, we know that a reprobate will never surrender to Christ ( not in his nature to do so) and a child of God is guaranteed salvation. So what was his goal for presenting a fire & brimstone sermon? Just looking for some clarity here.

No, you are wrong. It was not His goal to scare people. Edwards text was from Deuteronomy 32:35 "their foot shall slide in due time."

*Deuteronomy 32:35-39*
Vengeance is mine, and recompense, for the time when their foot shall slip; for the day of their calamity is at hand, and their doom comes swiftly.’ For the Lord will vindicate his people and have compassion on his servants, when he sees that their power is gone and there is none remaining, bond or free. Then he will say, ‘Where are their gods, the rock in which they took refuge, who ate the fat of their sacrifices and drank the wine of their drink offering? Let them rise up and help you; let them be your protection! “‘See now that I, even I, am he, and there is no god beside me; I kill and I make alive; I wound and I heal; and there is none that can deliver out of my hand.

Edwards was praying for God to awaken His dead church. He read the sermon without ever looking up and he spoke with a boring cadence, all because he didn't want to get in the way of the Holy Spirit. Edwards couldn't even get through the whole sermon as people were met with conviction by the Holy Spirit.

For you to insinuate that Edwards attempted to create an emotional fear of his own doing is either a lie or a statement of your own ignorance regarding the history of this awakening. Which one do you choose?

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

Btw EWF we don't know the human heart but God does, and I know the sermon is out of the ordinary preaching but the Lord knew what was needed and had Edwards deliver the message!

But is that ‘in character’ for a Puritan Calvinist to deliver a sermon that suggests something that a Puritan congregation already is aware of? Normally we do not allow people who are not regenerated to become members of the church… and it’s really not our jobs to convince them to be Christian’s… we rely on the HS for that to happen. I would submit to you that it is the Arminians who believe this not stalwart Calvinists… leading me to wonder just what Edwards thought he was doing.

Now the Calminian folk will applaud him for his efforts to scare people to accepting Christ Which is asinine.. you can’t do that to a child of God who has Gods stamp on them, chosen from before the foundations of the world began.

Going back to Martin Luther’s argument if I may, Luther had protégés who questioned him on this .. what was the harm of adding a little bit of human effort to the work of God? Well Luther answered by siting that this “little bit” was tantamount to the error of the Roman Catholic Church, who insisted that the will of man is the decisive factor in salvation. I don’t know about anyone here on this board but I myself was born, raised and lived Catholicism for a long time and once I recognized this error, as well as a host of many other man made errors to many to deal with here, I abandoned it ought right.

In summation, and what remains the issue today is the banner of Sola Gratia ( by Grace alone) .. to add anything at all ( like scaring the crap outa someone in order to bring salvation to them ) and I repeat, adding ANYTHING at all to Gods Grace is to destroy its graciousness… it’s very nature as a gift.

 

[tyndale1946]

But is that ‘in character’ for a Puritan Calvinist to deliver a sermon that suggests something that a Puritan congregation already is aware of? Normally we do not allow people who are not regenerated to become members of the church… and it’s really not our jobs to convince them to be Christian’s… we rely on the HS for that to happen. I would submit to you that it is the Arminians who believe this not stalwart Calvinists… leading me to wonder just what Edwards thought he was doing.

Now the Calminian folk will applaud him for his efforts to scare people to accepting Christ Which is asinine.. you can’t do that to a child of God who has Gods stamp on them, chosen from before the foundations of the world began.

Going back to Martin Luther’s argument if I may, Luther had protégés who questioned him on this .. what was the harm of adding a little bit of human effort to the work of God? Well Luther answered by siting that this “little bit” was tantamount to the error of the Roman Catholic Church, who insisted that the will of man is the decisive factor in salvation. I don’t know about anyone here on this board but I myself was born, raised and lived Catholicism for a long time and once I recognized this error, as well as a host of many other man made errors to many to deal with here, I abandoned it ought right.

In summation, and what remains the issue today is the banner of Sola Gratia ( by Grace alone) .. to add anything at all ( like scaring the crap outa someone in order to bring salvation to them ) and I repeat, adding ANYTHING at all to Gods Grace is to destroy its graciousness… it’s very nature as a gift.

I agree how you see it but I was not raised Catholic and none on here was raised PB like me... I didn't have to come out of anything like some do... I heard truth since I was knee high to a grasshopper... Those who have come out of another belief like you and kyredneck, have been convinced there is a new and perfect way... Its true I had to embrace the belief, but the belief I had was already there... I joined the church, where I grew up and the building I help build, with my Dad, when I was twelve years old... I joined the church officially at the age of 22... I never heard any other doctrine and didn't need to... Sovereign Grace 100% Christ, is the truth... I was home!... Brother Glen

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

No, you are wrong. It was not His goal to scare people. Edwards text was from Deuteronomy 32:35 "their foot shall slide in due time."

*Deuteronomy 32:35-39*
Vengeance is mine, and recompense, for the time when their foot shall slip; for the day of their calamity is at hand, and their doom comes swiftly.’ For the Lord will vindicate his people and have compassion on his servants, when he sees that their power is gone and there is none remaining, bond or free. Then he will say, ‘Where are their gods, the rock in which they took refuge, who ate the fat of their sacrifices and drank the wine of their drink offering? Let them rise up and help you; let them be your protection! “‘See now that I, even I, am he, and there is no god beside me; I kill and I make alive; I wound and I heal; and there is none that can deliver out of my hand.

Edwards was praying for God to awaken His dead church. He read the sermon without ever looking up and he spoke with a boring cadence, all because he didn't want to get in the way of the Holy Spirit. Edwards couldn't even get through the whole sermon as people were met with conviction by the Holy Spirit.

For you to insinuate that Edwards attempted to create an emotional fear of his own doing is either a lie or a statement of your own ignorance regarding the history of this awakening. Which one do you choose?

Don to try to pidgin hole me Is that how you operate…and I don’t beat my wife either. Answer the question I posed earlier, what was Edwards motivation for reading the sermon in the first place. Honestly I don’t buy your answer that Edwards was merely praying! Come on, the guys a Yale graduate.. well studied in theology, Bible, doctrine. I believe he was attempting to insight an emotionally charged response from his congregation… which he did quite successfully! Good for him and he did in a deadpan delivery… or was that done because he was half blind and could hardly see his own handwriting. I will further suggest that’s the mark of a Calminian. Anyway, I don’t accept your explanation, But I will give you the last word.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

I agree how you see it but I was not raised Catholic and none on here was raised PB like me... I didn't have to come out of anything like some do... I heard truth since I was knee high to a grasshopper... Those who have come out of another belief like you and kyredneck, have been convinced there is a new and perfect way... Its true I had to embrace the belief, but the belief I had was already there... I joined the church, where I grew up and the building I help build, with my Dad, when I was twelve years old... I joined the church officially at the age of 22... I never heard any other doctrine and didn't need to... Sovereign Grace 100% Christ, is the truth... I was home!... Brother Glen

Well, yea I am very guarded about my walk. I will go farther and tell you that a RC priest attempted to pick me up when we were playing hoops on the street only I said nope goin go home now and that same priest was later arrested, tried and out in prison… the worst pedofile criminal in Pennsylvania history. Needless to say, I think about that and still shutter.

So my hero thru all this is Christ
I have no allegiance to any churchman, theologian, priest, Pope blah blah blah. If you gots a point, then make it cause I’m going to question you and your motives. Glen both you and Kentucky, Ken and one or two others on this forum have been gracious to me so I’m trusting with you guys, a band of brothers. Others have been wishy washy, two faced, touchy, some down right hostile and petty. Nothing I can’t handle!

Semper Fidelis

 

[AustinC]

Don to try to pidgin hole me Is that how you operate…and I don’t beat my wife either. Answer the question I posed earlier, what was Edwards motivation for reading the sermon in the first place. Honestly I don’t buy your answer that Edwards was merely praying! Come on, the guys a Yale graduate.. well studied in theology, Bible, doctrine. I believe he was attempting to insight an emotionally charged response from his congregation… which he did quite successfully! Good for him and he did in a deadpan delivery… or was that done because he was half blind and could hardly see his own handwriting. I will further suggest that’s the mark of a Calminian. Anyway, I don’t accept your explanation, But I will give you the last word.

I answered. Edwards motive in reading his sermon was that people in his church would come to saving faith in Christ Jesus.

But, you're here trying to claim that Edwards was attempting to create a some scare tactic to emotionally move people to fear and trembling.
Read the accounts and Edwards himself so you can actually get the correct story instead of making something up.

 

[kyredneck]

Those who have come out of another belief like you and kyredneck,

I was raised in a hyper Dispensational/Evangelical Southern Baptist church that made no bones of placing the burden of other's eternal destiny on you through their hell fire damnation teaching - 'slacking soul winners sends people to hell'. Not even those under the yoke of the law had such a burden placed upon them. What a relief it was to finally come to the truth.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

If you're out to smear the PBs then tell the whole story. It's GILLITE teaching as opposed to FULLERITE teaching. The article is rooted in the OLD PARTICULAR BAPTIST doctrine of Justification from eternity as taught by John Gill and other old Particular Baptists prior to the advent of Andrew Fuller, of which the Primitive Baptists still adhere to.

And if there's ever a truth that applies to Primitive Baptists they LOVE, LOVE, LOVE the preaching of the gospel.

I will attest to that! I have never in my life have experienced a more perfect display of Christs love in any other church.

 

[Brightfame52]

Romans 2: 28 For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh:

29 But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.

Paul here is describing the True Jew of God, it goes beyond being of the natural physical seed of Abraham, but it means all who are regenerated or circumcised in heart, regardless of ethnicity. See Gal 6:15

15 For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision, but a new creature.

Paul writing to some Gentile believers in Phillipi writes Phil 3:3

3 For we are the circumcision[Jews], which worship God in the spirit, and rejoice in Christ Jesus, and have no confidence in the flesh.