Ten differences between Catholics and Non-Catholics

[Walter]

Water baptism is after a person has believed on Christ.

Catholic sprinkling water baptism cannot be a door to salvation because babies can’t repent nor trust Christ.

Christ is the ONLY door to salvation.

You have Catholic baptism confused with Presbyterian, Methodist, etc. We don't 'sprinkle' water on anyone. In my church, either water is poured over the candidate or they are immersed.

 

[MrW]

Catholics immerse?

 

[MrW]

a newborn is NOT a Catholic, Protestant, Muslim, Mormon or any other religion.
Putting a babys name on a church roll does not make a person a member of that group.

No, Catholic babies don't receive salvation--not until they repent and believe on the Lord Jesus Christ. Then, they are to be baptized in water, but then they aren't babies anymore.

"Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and thou SHALT BE saved..." Acts 16:31.

 

[Walter]

Catholics immerse?

We have a pool in our church (St. Joseph's, Roseburg, Oregon) in which the majority of adult baptisms are by immersion. It's by choice. For infants, water is poured over their heads. In the Orthodox Church, infants are immersed.

 

[AustinC]

My Rabbi friend who became Christian always from a young age had a gift for sensing the powerful presence of God.
This Psalm captured him from almost infancy.
“ One thing have I desired of the LORD, that will I seek after; that I may dwell in the house of the LORD all the days of my life, to behold the beauty of the LORD, and to inquire in his temple.“

After experiencing Christ and believing, he went to Christian churches to pray. In all the Protestant churches he went to, he experienced Christ when the congregation had gathered, but when they dispersed, Christ was no longer present.
But the first day he entered a Catholic Church knowing no better, he was overwhelmed by Jesus Glorious Presence, such that he had to go out side in awe. And no one else was in the Church.

He desperately went to tell the parish priest about God dwelling in the Church, to which the priest said that Jesus is fully present in the Eucharist in The Tabernacle.

Today and since then, he spends every waking hour in front of The Eucharist. Can’t be moved by anyone.

The Eucharist is Jesus. That’s the great thing we have been trying to tell people for so long.

Wait, are you saying that Christ is not present when other people leave the room? Jesus tells us "behold I am with you always." "I will never leave you nor forsake you."
How then can any believer imagine that Christ isn't present when others leave the building? That sounds to me like mystical emotionalism with little to no biblical truth.

 

[Salty]

Salty, one does not put a baby on a church roll..

Go to any Catholic church - and after a baby has been sprinkled - he is now on the church roll. that's right someone at the RCC will put that baby's name on the church roll.
Granted - that action will not get that baby any closer to Heaven. If anything - it is liable to keep him from going to heaven.

 

[Walter]

Go to any Catholic church - and after a baby has been sprinkled - he is now on the church roll. that's right someone at the RCC will put that baby's name on the church roll.
Granted - that action will not get that baby any closer to Heaven. If anything - it is liable to keep him from going to heaven.

Where do you get the idea that babies are 'sprinkled' in a Catholic Church? Have you ever been to a Catholic baptism? I've witnessed many Catholic baptisms and never are they 'sprinkled'. Presbyterians and other protestants sprinkle.

As far as church 'rolls' are concerned, Catholic parishes register families. For instance, St Charles Borromeo Catholic Church, Visalia, Ca. has 14,000 families registered.

 

[Salty]

Where do you get the idea that babies are 'sprinkled' in a Catholic Church? Have you ever been to a Catholic baptism? I've witnessed many Catholic baptisms and never are they 'sprinkled'. Presbyterians and other protestants sprinkle.

THAN what do you call it?

 

[Walter]

THAN what do you call it?

Water is 'poured' (usually by way of some kind of shell) over the head of the infant. I've witnessed protestant infant baptisms in which many of the them sprinkle water on the infant.

 

[Salty]

Well pouring and sprinkling are basically the same thing!
Scriptural mode is immersion.

Even the Greek orthodox will immerse their babies -
could it be that they know the meaning of the bapitizo?

(Granted - there is no need to immerse/pour/sprinkle a baby
as it does nothing for his salvation.

 

[Cathode]

Well pouring and sprinkling are basically the same thing!
Scriptural mode is immersion.

Even the Greek orthodox will immerse their babies -
could it be that they know the meaning of the bapitizo?

(Granted - there is no need to immerse/pour/sprinkle a baby
as it does nothing for his salvation.

It does where Faith is involved. The Faith of the parents answers for the baby before it reaches the age of reason.
It’s been done this way for 2000 years, and infants have never been excluded from baptism.
Excluding infants from baptism is only a recent phenomena.

 

[Salty]

It does where Faith is involved. The Faith of the parents answers for the baby before it reaches the age of reason.
It’s been done this way for 2000 years, and infants have never been excluded from baptism.
Excluding infants from baptism is only a recent phenomena.

Just as a husband cannot ask for salvation for his wife - neither can parents provide salvation for their children - regardless of age. Of Course parents can teach their children as they grow- and we trust that thru this teaching these children will see the need for repentance and accept Christ as their Savior at the appropriate age.

I am starting a new thread - Do Babies go to Heaven?

So, Cathode it looks like we will just have to agree to disagree

 

[Cathode]

Just as a husband cannot ask for salvation for his wife - neither can parents provide salvation for their children - regardless of age. Of Course parents can teach their children as they grow- and we trust that thru this teaching these children will see the need for repentance and accept Christ as their Savior at the appropriate age.

I am starting a new thread - Do Babies go to Heaven?

So, Cathode it looks like we will just have to agree to disagree

Don’t give up just yet on the idea of common ground here dude. We can nut this through.

Whose Faith stood in for the Roman centurions daughter, was it the daughters personal act of faith, or the faith of her father.?

Whose faith stood in for Lazarus? Was it Lazarus’ personal Faith or was it Martha’s. ?

In both cases we see someone else’s faith stand in for people to bring about a miracle.

Same with baptism. Someone else’s faith stands and answers for those that cannot.

We both agree that Faith is necessary, but the question is whether you believe that the faith of one can act on behalf of another.

If faith can as scripture demonstrates act on behalf of another, then you should have no obstacle in believing in infant baptism.

 

[Salty]

Whose faith stood in for Lazarus? Was it Lazarus’ personal Faith or was it Martha’s. ?

In both cases we see someone else’s faith stand in for people to bring about a miracle.

Same with baptism. Someone else’s faith stands and answers for those that cannot.

We both agree that Faith is necessary, but the question is whether you believe that the faith of one can act on behalf of another.

If faith can as scripture demonstrates act on behalf of another, then you should have no obstacle in believing in infant baptism.

NEGATIVE!

 

[Cathode]

NEGATIVE!

Negative, that someone’s faith can not act on another’s behalf?

Scripture doesn’t support that dude. We see cases of it through the New Testament.

 

[MrW]

It does where Faith is involved. The Faith of the parents answers for the baby before it reaches the age of reason.
It’s been done this way for 2000 years, and infants have never been excluded from baptism.
Excluding infants from baptism is only a recent phenomena.

You can't have faith in place of another person.

"Pour" or "sprinkle". Semantics. It's not the meaning of "baptism", which is immersion, as being symbolic of being buried and then resurrected.

 

[MrW]

Negative, that someone’s faith can not act on another’s behalf?

Scripture doesn’t support that dude. We see cases of it through the New Testament.

Not in eternal salvation.

 

[Cathode]

You can't have faith in place of another person.

"Pour" or "sprinkle". Semantics. It's not the meaning of "baptism", which is immersion, as being symbolic of being buried and then resurrected.

So how was the centurions daughter healed ? It wasn’t her faith. It was very clearly her father’s faith.

 

[AustinC]

So how was the centurions daughter healed ? It wasn’t her faith. It was very clearly her father’s faith.

Faith never healed her.
Faith place its trust in the one who had the power to heal.

Your thinking places all the glory on the actions of a human. That type of thinking is legalism and Pharisaical as it imagines that the human work is what causes God to act. It ignores the fact that God caused the human to believe, by grace, and then healed, by grace.

 

[Cathode]

Faith never healed her.
Faith place its trust in the one who had the power to heal.

Your thinking places all the glory on the actions of a human. That type of thinking is legalism and Pharisaical as it imagines that the human work is what causes God to act. It ignores the fact that God caused the human to believe, by grace, and then healed, by grace.

“He said to her, “Daughter, your faith has healed you. Go in peace and be freed from your suffering.”

“And he could not do many mighty works there because of their unbelief.”

You know, I bet you got detention at Sunday school.