The True Gospel of Christ's Saving Death

[Silverhair]

1. For the record, I am friends with Sonny Hernandez on Facebook.

2. Do you think a person can be saved under a false gospel which conditions salvation on man and not 100% by the free grace of God?

Galatians 1:8-9 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed. As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.

You silly Calvinists always keep running back to the same misunderstanding of salvation. Only God can save and He has chosen to save those that believe in His son. So it is 100% salvation by God and it is in response to man trusting in His son just as the bible says. So the question is, why do you hold to a false gospel?

 

[Martin Marprelate]

None of God's Word should be shunted over into a corner.

Indeed not, but you might like to consider how the Gospel was preached by the Apostles as we read it in Acts
Firstly, they did not tell everyone that Jesus loved them sooooo much, and wouldn't they love Him back?
But secondly, they did not tell people that some of them might be saved and some weren't and there was nothing they could do about it.

What they did was to preach Jesus as the Christ and as Lord and to bid men repent and put their trust in Him.
And that is what we must do.

 

[37818]

Do you think a person can be saved under a false gospel which conditions salvation on man and not 100% by the free grace of God?

The general redemption neither denies salvation is solely by the grace of God or that Christ died to secure salvation for His sheep.

Galatians 1:8-9 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed. As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.

Prove the understanding of the general redemption is another gospel! Jude 1:4 identifies the Lord Jesus Christ as the Sovereign in 2 Peter 2:1 cross reference. There are multiple well known references to the general redemption.

 

[37818]

I like to listen to Dr. Martyn Lloyd-Jones sermons since they are available on-line and he's recent enough that they are preserved in his own voice. I have been listening to his series on Ephesians. They are easy to find and start I think with sermon no. 4001. I bring him up because he gives a pretty powerful case for the truth of the doctrines of grace and Calvinism in general but he maintains that this is not a salvation issue. We all need to come to Christ by faith. Good debate on a theological level is fine but I wouldn't question the other side's salvation. Lloyd-Jones makes the point that a Calvinist more that anyone should be aware that God can save us even when we stumble doctrinally.

Without hearing Christ paid for one's sins, on what basis is one to believe Christ as one's Savior? Romans 5:8, 1 Corinthians 15:3-4.

 

[KenH]

Well, it would seem, we both believe each other believe something that is not true.

You believe a false doctrine about the propitiatory death of Christ. I believe what the Bible teaches about the propitiatory death of Christ.

 

[KenH]

he gives a pretty powerful case for the truth of the doctrines of grace...but he maintains that this is not a salvation issue.

Apparently, Martin Lloyd-Jones placed much less emphasis on Biblical sound doctrine than God's Word does:

2 John 1:10-11 If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into your house, neither bid him God speed: for he that biddeth him God speed is partaker of his evil deeds.

(emphasis mine)

 

[KenH]

it is in response to man trusting in His son

By your very own words, you teach a gospel conditioned on man and not 100% on the free grace of God in Christ.

 

[KenH]

But secondly, they did not tell people that some of them might be saved and some weren't and there was nothing they could do about it.

1. There is no way to know that. One would have to assume that we have complete sermons in all cases in the Bible, which we do not; for example: Acts 2:40 And with many other words did he testify and exhort.

(emphasis mine)

2. By teaching, as the Bible does, that God elected, God chose, God predestinated, it eliminates the idea of man electing himself in some form or fashion, or man choosing in some form or fashion, or man deciding in some form or fashion by his own "libertarian free will". The language of exclusivity eliminates any idea opposed to it.

3. I would not want to proclaim a "partial Christ". The apostle Paul certainly did not: Acts 20:20 And how I kept back nothing that was profitable unto you.

 

[DaveXR650]

Without hearing Christ paid for one's sins, on what basis is one to believe Christ as one's Savior? Romans 5:8, 1 Corinthians 15:3-4.

Like I said earlier, I see how you could have that opinion. I personally have no problem saying to anyone that Christ died for their sins. But I'm telling you that strict Calvinists like Owen, who believed in a strict particular atonement, and had a high level of belief in determinism and predestination and election - also had no problem offering the benefits of Christ to anyone who would come. Owen thought that the only evidence of being "elect" was a changed heart and life so he did not ever try to be the gatekeeper so to speak of who it is that are elect. Calvinists who do that are wrong but that does not mean Calvinists don't believe in a true offer of the gospel.

 

[KenH]

The general redemption neither denies salvation is solely by the grace of God or that Christ died to secure salvation for His sheep.

The false teaching of general redemption says that God will punish people for the exact same sins that Christ paid the full penalty for already.

The only way out of the theological corner you have painted yourself into is if you believe that all people will eventually be saved, either in this life or in the future age/ages, as "Christian universalists" teach.

 

[KenH]

Jude 1:4 identifies the Lord Jesus Christ as the Sovereign in 2 Peter 2:1 cross reference. There are multiple well known references to the general redemption.

See my post #27 earlier in this thread.

 

[DaveXR650]

Apparently, Martin Lloyd-Jones placed much less emphasis on Biblical sound doctrine than God's Word does:

2 John 1:10-11 If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into your house, neither bid him God speed: for he that biddeth him God speed is partaker of his evil deeds.

I rely on Martin Lloyd-Jones as being fairly sound. I don't think he's infallible. I think in the passage in 2 John "this doctrine" refers to the teachers that did not confess that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. I think several of the Calvinists and the non-Calvinists on this board take their theology to unscriptural, harmful extremes. But I don't think the 2 John warning applies to any of them.

 

[KenH]

Without hearing Christ paid for one's sins, on what basis is one to believe Christ as one's Savior?

When the gospel is preached, which should be what every sermon is about, it should include that Christ will save His people by His propitiatory sacrifice, not necessarily in those exact words but there are plenty of Biblical ways to proclaim Christ's effectual redemption of those for whom He died when proclaiming the gospel truth of perfect righteousness, imputation, justification, glorification, predestination, etc.

 

[KenH]

Calvinists who do that are wrong but that does not mean Calvinists don't believe in a true offer of the gospel.

The gospel is a declaration of finished work of Christ, it is not a offer. God does with His creation according to His purposes, not the other way around.

 

[Silverhair]

By your very own words, you teach a gospel conditioned on man and not 100% on the free grace of God in Christ.

So what do you teach? Does man not have to trust in Christ Jesus before they are saved? If you teach that then you are teaching another gospel and it needs to be condemned.

 

[KenH]

I rely on Martin Lloyd-Jones as being fairly sound. I don't think he's infallible. I think in the passage in 2 John "this doctrine" refers to the teachers that did not confess that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. I think several of the Calvinists and the non-Calvinists on this board take their theology to unscriptural, harmful extremes. But I don't think the 2 John warning applies to any of them.

God never leaves His elect in false doctrine. For example, He brought Apollos, in His timing, under the hearing of the gospel so that he would hear and believe: Acts 18:26 Whom when Aquila and Priscilla had heard, they took him unto them, and expounded unto him the way of God more perfectly.

 

[KenH]

Does man not have to trust in Christ Jesus before they are saved?

God regenerates His elect by giving them a new heart to replace their stony hearts and gives the gifts of repentance toward God and faith toward the Christ. God's elect are made willing in the day of His power (Psalms 110:3)

As Jonah said in Jonah 2:9: "Salvation is of the Lord."

 

[Silverhair]

The false teaching of general redemption says that God will punish people for the exact same sins that Christ paid the full penalty for already.

The only way out of the theological corner you have painted yourself into is if you believe that all people will eventually be saved, either in this life or in the future age/ages, as "Christian universalists" teach.

KenH who do you think we should listen to on this matter you or the Holy Spirit? I do believe it would be wise to listen to God.
1Jn 2:2 And He Himself is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the whole world.

Christ paid the sin debt for all and made salvation available to all just as the bible tells us. You continue to look through your false theology.

 

[Silverhair]

God regenerates His elect by giving them a new heart to replace their stony hearts and gives the gifts of repentance toward God and faith toward the Christ. God's elect are made willing in the day of His power (Psalms 110:3)

As Jonah said in Jonah 2:9: "Salvation is of the Lord."

You love to take scripture out of context in the attempt to support your view. The is a miserable way to do bible study but it does help to explain your faulty views. You are trusting in your Calvinism rather than the bible.

 

[KenH]

Christ paid the sin debt for all and made salvation available to all

Apparently, you do not believe Christ when He said, "It is finished." Apparently, you believe that Christ is only a partial savior and that His propitiatory death did not save anyone(and could end up saving no one) but did nothing more than to make everyone savable if they finish the work that Christ started. Thus, according to your teaching, Christ could end up saving no one at all if no one meets whatever conditions you think humans have to meet for salvation using their alleged "libertarian free will."