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What are the specific biblical instructions concerning translating God’s words into other languages

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Van

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Romans10:15
But how are they to preach unless they are sent? Just as it is written: “HOW BEAUTIFUL ARE THE FEET OF THOSE WHO BRING GOOD NEWS OF GOOD THINGS!”

What are "feet?" Are they what is used to traverse the gap between those who have the gospel and those who do not? How are the barriers to spreading the gospel crossed. Land barriers, Sea barriers, Language barriers?
 

Van

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1 Corinthians 14:27
If anyone speaks in a tongue, it must be by two or at the most three, and each one in turn, and one is to interpret;

You do not need to be a rocket scientist to grasp that to "interpret" is to translate what was said into something understandable by the audience. For example, Acts of the Apostles 9:36
 

canadyjd

Well-Known Member
So, when Jesus says on the cross, "Eli, eli, lama sabacthani," is it Scripture? Absolutely!!! And so, when the Bible itself translates it, that is undeniably Scripture translation.
JOJ, could you explain what a “dead language” is? My understanding is it is a language no longer spoken. Such are Biblical Hebrew and Biblical Greek (different languages from the modern versions)

Even though we can study and read them, or even speak to others who have studied them, we are not really speaking as they would in the 1st century because we “fill in the gaps” of understanding with our on modern beliefs.

So, with the OP, we have no choice but to translate because those languages are “dead”, no one speaks them, nor are we able to learn without putting our own experiences into them.

Thanks

peace to you
 

JD731

Well-Known Member
Huh? Incoherent, like your OP.

Yes, given in Hebrew, Greek and Aramaic. So I translated from Greek--the language God gave the NT in--into Japanese.

Yes, I did. Anyone who tries to teach English to a people group so that they can then give them the Gospel is disobeying the Great Commission. We are not to wait to give someone the Gospel until they understand our English (which would take many months at a minimum), but must do it right away or we are disobedient. That means we must give them the gospel in their own language.

And no, God is not silent on Bible translation. In each of the examples given above, it is Scripture that is being translated into another language.

Question; do you know any other language but English? If not you are not qualified in any way, shape or form to talk about missiology or Bible translation. Just quit. You have no idea what you are talking about.
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You are setting up straw men. Your comments do not come close to answering the op. To be honest I would like for you to point me to scripture that addresses what God expects of us who translates the scriptures. You cannot do it because Deacon says it is nowhere in the scriptures. I concur.

God does not turn his holy things over to men. The scriptures are holy scriptures. Men are easily deceived and it would be a train wreck if he depended on men to keep them pure.So God preserves his word providentially. The holy scriptures are always going to be inspired whether the men God uses to translate them know they are being guided by God in their work or whether they do not.

Now your charge against my integrity concerning the gospel of Jesus Christ. I have started threads to argue that sinners do not need a written Bible in order to get saved from their sins. I have made the argument that no one in the apostolic era of the beginning of the church went out with the written word of God. God has not chosen Bible reading to get sinners saved. It has pleased him by the foolishness of preaching to save them which believe. Faith comets by hearing and hearing by the word of God.

It takes two people for salvation to occur. A preacher who is convinced of the power of the gospel to save, and a sinner who will hear, repent, and believe. The gospel is preached in the preachers own words most times. This is not true when it comes to the mysteries of the faith.

God has not commissioned men to translate his scriptures. The absence of biblical instruction is just one proof of this fact. However, if God in his providence has decided to give the Japanese a Bible in their own language at this late hour and you are the instrument of his providence to do it then I say amen. This does not mean you are perfect if God wants to present a perfect Bible in that language. It means he is perfect. He can do what he wants.
 

canadyjd

Well-Known Member
.
You are setting up straw men. Your comments do not come close to answering the op. To be honest I would like for you to point me to scripture that addresses what God expects of us who translates the scriptures. You cannot do it because Deacon says it is nowhere in the scriptures. I concur.

God does not turn his holy things over to men. The scriptures are holy scriptures. Men are easily deceived and it would be a train wreck if he depended on men to keep them pure.So God preserves his word providentially. The holy scriptures are always going to be inspired whether the men God uses to translate them know they are being guided by God in their work or whether they do not.

Now your charge against my integrity concerning the gospel of Jesus Christ. I have started threads to argue that sinners do not need a written Bible in order to get saved from their sins. I have made the argument that no one in the apostolic era of the beginning of the church went out with the written word of God. God has not chosen Bible reading to get sinners saved. It has pleased him by the foolishness of preaching to save them which believe. Faith comets by hearing and hearing by the word of God.

It takes two people for salvation to occur. A preacher who is convinced of the power of the gospel to save, and a sinner who will hear, repent, and believe. The gospel is preached in the preachers own words most times. This is not true when it comes to the mysteries of the faith.

God has not commissioned men to translate his scriptures. The absence of biblical instruction is just one proof of this fact. However, if God in his providence has decided to give the Japanese a Bible in their own language at this late hour and you are the instrument of his providence to do it then I say amen. This does not mean you are perfect if God wants to present a perfect Bible in that language. It means he is perfect. He can do what he wants.
Are you arguing the church should only use oral tradition in teaching and instructions?

Paul wrote many letters and they were copied and shared throughout the early church.

peace to you
 

JD731

Well-Known Member
The Great Commission is one scriptural passage that believers have cited as justification for making Bible translations.

KJV defender Thomas Strouse asserted: “The Great Commission requires the translation of the Scriptures into various languages” (Brandenburg, Thou Shalt Keep Them, p. 250). KJV-only advocate H. D. Williams wrote: “Our Lord commanded the church to make His inspired, preserved Words available in other languages (Matthew 28:19-20, Rom. 16:25-27, 1 Cor. 14:21, Jer. 23:28-29)“ (Pure Words, p. 58).

What is one Biblical principle that would apply to Bible translation and one purpose of Bible translation? "And how hear we every man in our tongue, wherein we were born?" (Acts 2:8). "So likewise ye, except ye utter by the tongue words easy to be understood, how shall it be known what is spoken? for ye shall speak into the air." (1 Cor. 14:9). "Write the vision and make it plain" (Hab. 2:2). "Therefore if I know not the meaning of the voice, I shall be unto him that speaketh a barbarian, and he that speaketh shall be a barbarian unto me" (1 Cor. 14:11). "Understandest thou what thou readest?" (Acts 8:30). “Whoso readeth, let him understand” (Matt. 24:15). “They [the words] are all plain to him that understand” (Prov. 8:9). On such verses as these and others, believers have built one aspect of their views concerning the translation of God's Word.

Many and likely most Bible-believers have consistently contended that God's Word should be in the language of the common people. Lawton maintained that “Tyndale, Coverdale and the translators of the Geneva Bible after him believed that the language of English Bible translation should be strong and colloquial” (Faith, pp. 80-81). William Tyndale "perceived that it was not possible to establish the lay people in any truth, except the Scriptures were so plainly laid before their eyes in their mother tongue, that they might see the meaning of the text" (Foxe's Book of Martyrs, p. 141). Tyndale commented: “For if I understand not the meaning, it helpeth me not” (Answer, p. 97). William Whitaker wrote: "We say that the scriptures should be translated into all the languages of Christendom, that all men may be enabled to read them in their own tongue" (Disputation, p. 211). John Diodati is translated as writing: “Scriptures can and must be translated into all the languages of all nations, so that they may be read and understood by all” (Ferrari, Diodati’s Doctrine, p. 47). One of the Irish Articles adopted in 1615 stated: “The Scriptures ought to be translated out of the original tongues into all languages for the common use of all men” (Bray, Documents, p. 439). Brian Walton wrote: “Because all cannot understand the original tongues; therefore, translations serve as many pipes or channels to convey the living waters of salvation from the fountains to every particular nation and people, that so all may read and hear the wonderful works of God in their own tongue” (Todd, Memoirs, II, p. 92). Edwin Smith observed: “The desire to enable people to read God’s Word in their own tongue has been the chief motive in studying strange tongues and writing them down” (UnSealing the Book, p. 2).

In his 1876 book on Baptist distinctives, pastor John Quincy Adams wrote: "The correct principle of translating them [the Scriptures] is to make them speak to all nations just what they spoke to those who had them from the hand of God--just what the originals express" (Baptists Thorough Reformers, p. 130). Pastor Alexander Carson wrote: "The readers of a translation ought to have as far as possible all the distinctions of the original" (Baptism: Its Mode and Subjects, p. 317). About the KJV, John Quincy Adams commented: "This being a translation, partakes more or less of the imperfections of the translators; and, in every instance where the original is not clearly and fully translated, it is the word of man, and not the Word of God" (p. 129). Laurence Humphrey (1527?-1590) as translated by Gordon Kendal asserted: “We need to be at pains all the time to make use of words that are customary and proper within the language into which we are translating” (Rhodes, English Renaissance Translation, p. 272).

As Gordon Clark proclaimed: "If we cannot understand or conceive what God tells us to do, of what use is the revelation?" (The Trinity, p. 79). In the introduction of his translation of Jeremiah, Benjamin Blayney, editor of the 1769 Oxford edition of the KJV, asked: “Can any Scripture be profitable except it be understood? And if not rightly understood, may not the perversion of it be proportionably dangerous?“ (p. xv). Laurence Humphrey as translated by Gordon Kendal asked: “For what is the point of language if it is so indistinct that nobody can understand it, so obscure as to be incomprehensible?“ (Rhodes, English Renaissance, p. 272). George Wither (1588-1667) observed: “That is ever best translated, and with most ease understood, which we express in words and phrases suitable to our own tongue” (Rhodes, p. 207). Charles Spurgeon noted: “Unless we understand what we read we have not read it; the heart of the reading is absent. We commonly condemn the Romanists for keeping the daily service in the Latin tongue; yet it might as well be in the Latin language as in any other tongue if it be not understood by the people” (Spurgeon’s Expository Ency., 15, p. 209). Since translation is so necessary to all who do not understand Greek or Hebrew, what legitimate objection can there be to the translation of God's Word into present-day English?

This was the argument of the KJV translators themselves in their preface to the 1611. They wrote: "But we desire that the Scripture may speak like itself, as in the language of Canaan, that it may be understood even of the very common people." There is no valid Scriptural reason why God's Word should be frozen in seventeenth-century English than there is why it should be frozen in Latin. As Noah Webster stated in the preface to his 1833 revision of the KJV: "Whenever words are understood in a sense different from that which they had when introduced, and different from that of the original languages, they do not present to the reader the Word of God."


First concerning this passage that is used out of context almost every time it is used. I will start a thread later and explain it. Here it is;



What is one Biblical principle that would apply to Bible translation and one purpose of Bible translation? "And how hear we every man in our tongue, wherein we were born?" (Acts 2:8). "So likewise ye, except ye utter by the tongue words easy to be understood, how shall it be known what is spoken? for ye shall speak into the air."

This is a Jewish passage. When God speaks to his people in another language other than their national language of Hebrew it is a sign that they are under the judgement of God.

1Co 14:21 In the law it is written, With men of other tongues and other lips will I speak unto this people; and yet for all that will they not hear me, saith the Lord.
22 Wherefore tongues are for a sign, not to them that believe, but to them that believe not: but prophesying serveth not for them that believe not, but for them which believe.

This people is Israel and at Pentecost when they were called to repentance in Acts 2 by Peter, they would not believe. This passage has absolutely nothing to do with translating the Bible.

2) The point is you have worn yourself out and you have not quoted or referenced one single verse that instructs you or anyone else to translate the scriptures from one language to another. Your doctrine of Bible translation is extra biblical at best.
 
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JD731

Well-Known Member
Are you arguing the church should only use oral tradition in teaching and instructions?

Paul wrote many letters and they were copied and shared throughout the early church.

peace to you


Can you answer the op and give me one passage that instructs the church of Jesus Christ to translate the scriptures? Good grief, how hard is the request to understand?
 

canadyjd

Well-Known Member
Can you answer the op and give me one passage that instructs the church of Jesus Christ to translate the scriptures? Good grief, how hard is the request to understand?
JOJ gave you a well reasoned, biblically sound answer to your question supporting the use of translations, so your OP has been answered, even if you disagree.

Can you answer a simple question concerning the purpose of the OP?

Are you saying the church should only use oral tradition when teaching and preaching?

peace to you
 

JD731

Well-Known Member
JOJ gave you a well reasoned, biblically sound answer to your question supporting the use of translations, so your OP has been answered, even if you disagree.

Can you answer a simple question concerning the purpose of the OP?

Are you saying the church should only use oral tradition when teaching and preaching?

peace to you

I am asking you for a passage in the scriptures that instructs the translation of the holy Scriptures. I am not asking you what JoJ said. You would not have a need to ask your question if you had read what I said. But here goes once again;

It is an absolute necessity for the scriptures to be translated into other languages if the people of those languages are going to mature and grow in knowledge and spiritual understanding. The source of this knopwledge is the scriptures. But to have the scriptures translated into a particular language for salvation to occur is not a necessity. The preaching of the cross is a necessity for that to happen.

When Peter went to the Roman Cornelius, an Italian, to preach the gospel to him, nothing was said to him about a Bible or translating the Hebrew OT into Italian, ever. When Paul was sent to Europe having set his direction to Asia, a province in Asia minor, God said nothing about translating anything. Translating is not necessarily the missionaries calling. Many missionaries go to remote areas of the world and never attempt a translation into that language.

It is the prerogative of God to give them a Bible in their own language if and when he chooses to. Men cannot translate spiritual words.

Joh 6:63 It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.

There is no mandate for the church of Jesus Christ to translate the Bible. There has been a few times in history that he transitioned and providing the word of God was always his business. The written word of God is God's words. He spoke them. They are not our words. God cannot lie or be in error.

Do not fall into presumptuous sins.
 

canadyjd

Well-Known Member
I am asking you for a passage in the scriptures that instructs the translation of the holy Scriptures. I am not asking you what JoJ said. You would not have a need to ask your question if you had read what I said. But here goes once again;

It is an absolute necessity for the scriptures to be translated into other languages if the people of those languages are going to mature and grow in knowledge and spiritual understanding. The source of this knopwledge is the scriptures. But to have the scriptures translated into a particular language for salvation to occur is not a necessity. The preaching of the cross is a necessity for that to happen.

When Peter went to the Roman Cornelius, an Italian, to preach the gospel to him, nothing was said to him about a Bible or translating the Hebrew OT into Italian, ever. When Paul was sent to Europe having set his direction to Asia, a province in Asia minor, God said nothing about translating anything. Translating is not necessarily the missionaries calling. Many missionaries go to remote areas of the world and never attempt a translation into that language.

It is the prerogative of God to give them a Bible in their own language if and when he chooses to. Men cannot translate spiritual words.

Joh 6:63 It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.

There is no mandate for the church of Jesus Christ to translate the Bible. There has been a few times in history that he transitioned and providing the word of God was always his business. The written word of God is God's words. He spoke them. They are not our words. God cannot lie or be in error.

Do not fall into presumptuous sins.
Thank you for clarifying. I glad you don’t believe the church should only use oral tradition.

I am not really understanding your point when you say God doesn’t mandate the church to translate the Bible, but in the next sentence you say there are a few times in history when He did by way of “transitioning” but that’s his business.

Please show me the scripture that says the church should provide a translation only when God decrees it for “transitioning” but that his business?

Peace to you
 

Conan

Well-Known Member
Matthew

28:18 And Iesus came and spake vnto them sayinge: All power ys given vnto me in heaven and in erth.
28:19 Go therfore and teache all nacions baptysinge them in the name of the father and the sonne and the holy goost:
28:20 Teachinge them to observe all thynges what soever I commaunded you. And lo I am with you all waye even vntyll the ende of the worlde.



William Tyndale Bible 1534
William Tyndale was the first man to ever print the New Testament in
the English language. Tyndale also went on to be the first to translate much of the Old Testament from the original Hebrew into English, but he was executed in 1536 for the "crime" of printing the scriptures in English before he could personally complete the printing of an entire Bible. His friends Myles Coverdale, and John [Thomas Matthew] Rogers, managed to evade arrest and publish entire Bibles in the English language for the first time, and within one year of Tyndale's death. These Bibles were primarily the work of William Tyndale
 
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Marooncat79

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Can you answer the op and give me one passage that instructs the church of Jesus Christ to translate the scriptures? Good grief, how hard is the request to understand?

Please state clearly your point?

Are you stating there should be no translations?
 

Logos1560

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Your doctrine of Bible translation is extra biblical at best.

Your incorrect opinion is extra-biblical and inconsistent.

Your own KJV-only doctrine of Bible translation is inconsistent and extra biblical.

You have failed to present as sound and scriptural a case for your human opinions as has been presented against them.
 

Logos1560

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It is the prerogative of God to give them a Bible in their own language if and when he chooses to. Men cannot translate spiritual words.
You quote no original-language Scriptures given by inspiration of God to the prophets and apostles that states what you assert.

John Wycliffe, William Tyndale, Miles Coverdale, John Rogers, the makers of the Geneva Bible, and the makers of the Bishops' Bible translated the word of God into English.
Does a consistent application of your own statement suggest that the pre-1611 English Bible translators disobeyed God and took on themselves a prerogative of God alone so that God could not have been involved in the making of their imperfect English Bible translations?

You do not demonstrate from Scripture that God directly gave English-speaking people the KJV in 1611.

Since you suggest that God was the One who gave a Bible in the English language and the one you claim God gave is clearly the KJV, why would God need to borrow and take most of the translating from earlier imperfect pre-1611 English Bibles? Why would God borrow many renderings from the 1582 Roman Catholic Rheims New Testament in making the 1611 KJV? Why do you in effect suggest that God borrowed from those who supposedly violated His prerogative?
 

Deacon

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There is no mandate for the church of Jesus Christ to translate the Bible. There has been a few times in history that he transitioned and providing the word of God was always his business. The written word of God is God's words. He spoke them. They are not our words. God cannot lie or be in error.

Do not fall into presumptuous sins.
This brings us back to what Conan posted when he mentioned the Original Preface to the KJV.
The translators provided a wise and responsible statement discussing the purpose and methods of the work they performed in God’s service, grounded in respect for God’s word.

As many already said in different words, the mandate is evangelism.
Though the words and letters vary from one language to another, the message is God’s.
He is faithful to his word and desires all to come to salvation.

Rob
 

John of Japan

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.
You are setting up straw men. Your comments do not come close to answering the op. To be honest I would like for you to point me to scripture that addresses what God expects of us who translates the scriptures. You cannot do it because Deacon says it is nowhere in the scriptures. I concur.

God does not turn his holy things over to men. The scriptures are holy scriptures. Men are easily deceived and it would be a train wreck if he depended on men to keep them pure.So God preserves his word providentially. The holy scriptures are always going to be inspired whether the men God uses to translate them know they are being guided by God in their work or whether they do not.

Now your charge against my integrity concerning the gospel of Jesus Christ. I have started threads to argue that sinners do not need a written Bible in order to get saved from their sins. I have made the argument that no one in the apostolic era of the beginning of the church went out with the written word of God. God has not chosen Bible reading to get sinners saved. It has pleased him by the foolishness of preaching to save them which believe. Faith comets by hearing and hearing by the word of God.

It takes two people for salvation to occur. A preacher who is convinced of the power of the gospel to save, and a sinner who will hear, repent, and believe. The gospel is preached in the preachers own words most times. This is not true when it comes to the mysteries of the faith.

God has not commissioned men to translate his scriptures. The absence of biblical instruction is just one proof of this fact. However, if God in his providence has decided to give the Japanese a Bible in their own language at this late hour and you are the instrument of his providence to do it then I say amen. This does not mean you are perfect if God wants to present a perfect Bible in that language. It means he is perfect. He can do what he wants.
With this post you condemn the translators of the KJV, who were by and large godly and good men, led by God to translate the Bible. I too was led by God to translate the Bible into Japanese. Who are you to say I, or any other missionary Bible translator, should not translate the Bible, thus launching me and others out of God's will? It is God who leads the missionary Bible translator. You or anyone else who opposes missionary Bible translation is going against the call of God--an extremely dangerous thing to do.

I would appreciate you answering my post about the Great Commission mandating Bible translation. Since you have not done so thus far, I say at this point that you cannot--you have no answer for the Great Commission.

If a missionary is obedient to the Great Commission, he or she simply must translate the Bible--at a minimum the Biblical Gospel. Otherwise, if the missionary decides to teach the nationals English before giving the Gospel, he or she is disobeying the Great Commission.

Also, again I ask, do you know any language other than English? If not, you have absolutely no standing to speak of Bible translation. Then, if that is so, your whole thread is a farce. You simply don't know what you are talking about.

This post is a rebuke of your opposition to Bible translation. The KJV teaches that if you are wise, you will take it to heart.
 

John of Japan

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I would also like JD731 to answer my post about the Aramaic words of Jesus being translated within the Word of God itself. (I doubt that he will.)
 

John of Japan

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Do not fall into presumptuous sins.
Take heed to yourself. Do you actually dare to rebuke me and other missionary Bible translators for translating the precious Word of God? God called me. Who are you to tell me God did not call me to translate???
 

John of Japan

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JOJ, could you explain what a “dead language” is? My understanding is it is a language no longer spoken. Such are Biblical Hebrew and Biblical Greek (different languages from the modern versions)
You have a correct definition.


Even though we can study and read them, or even speak to others who have studied them, we are not really speaking as they would in the 1st century because we “fill in the gaps” of understanding with our on modern beliefs.
Biblical Hebrew and Greek are not as dead as many languages, though, since there are versions still spoken: modern Greek and Hebrew. Therefore, the Biblical versions of the languages still have life, in a way--though they are dead languages. I hope that makes sense!
So, with the OP, we have no choice but to translate because those languages are “dead”, no one speaks them, nor are we able to learn without putting our own experiences into them.

Thanks

peace to you
This is a good point. I agree completely. The OP puts 17th century English as superior to, or at least more important than, the languages God chose to inspire the Bible in. There is no spiritual logic in that.
 
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