Featured The Penal Substitutionary Satisfaction by Jesus Christ in "The Council of Peace" from Eternity Past.

Socinians deny Penal Substitutionary Atonement, because they do not choose to embrace the doctrine of the necessity of Christ’s satisfaction for sin.

Is Socinianism what this is?

I could have sworn that the chastisement of our peace was upon Jesus.

"Punitive, or vindictive justice, belongs to God..."

"That punitive, or vindictive justice, is essential to God, or that he not only will not let sin go unpunished, but that he cannot but punish sin, is manifest,"

"...from sin being punished in Christ, the Surety of his people, it may be strongly concluded, that punitive justice is essential to God; or otherwise, where is the goodness of God to his own Son, that he should not spare him, but awake the sword of justice against him, and inflict the whole of punishment on him, due to the sins of those for whom he suffered, if he could not have punished sin, or this was not necessary?

"and, indeed, where is his wisdom in being at such an expense as the blood and life of his Son, if sin could have been let go unpunished, and the salvation of his people obtained without it?

"and where is the love of God to men, in giving Christ for them, for their remission and salvation, so much magnified, when all this might have been without it?

"but without shedding of blood, as there is no remission, so none could be, consistent with the justice of God;

"no pardon nor salvation, without satisfaction to that: could it have been in another way, the prayer of Christ would have brought it out, “Father, if it be possible, let this cup pass me” (Matthew 26:39)."

 

So, are you saying sin, therefore, could have not been imputed to Jesus?

An innocent? Jesus, or no?

What blood of what innocent, where?

To fix what, how?

Is that it, that's all?

What blood?

I'll take 4.
...

A lot of people deny salvation through Jesus and practice or except those as members who were sprinkled as infants, or baptize infants, otherwise, and every other accommodation, for the lost to be members, on and on, etc.

You and Arthur say a lot about what you don't believe, but I am grasping for something solid about what you actually do believe, that negates PSA as being inaccurate, or insufficient.

Except this, below, and I don't understand it. Did you mean to say, "not knowing sin was made sin for us", like that? If so, what does that mean?

 

"A Highway will be there...", thanks to the work of Jesus Christ,
in His Penal Substitutionary Atonement, for God's Elect.

"My Father worketh hitherto, and I work", the Eternal Plan of Salvation.
John 5:17b.

from:
How Does Penal Substitution Relate to Other Atonement Theories?

"...Scripture does stress the centrality of Christ’s priestly office
and his sacrificial death for our sins.

Matt 1:21; And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name JESUS: for he shall save his people from their sins.

1 Cor 15:3–4; For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;

4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures.

And given the centrality of Christ’s cross, it’s crucial that we explain it correctly."

"First, views other than penal substitution fail to grasp the central problem that the cross remedies, namely our sin before God.

"Second, from another angle, other views stress various legitimate entailments of the cross but without penal substitution as their foundation, these entailments alone cannot explain the central problem of our sin before God.

"Penal substitution had precursors in the early church and even in Anselm. It came to fullness in the Reformation and post-Reformation eras.

"Penal substitution does not deny the multi-faceted aspects of Christ’s death such as the restoration of what Adam lost, the defeat of the powers, the revelation of God’s love, and so on.

"Instead, it contends that central to the cross is God the Son incarnate acting as our new covenant representative and substitute to satisfy fully the triune God’s righteous demand against us due to our sin.

"Apart from this central achievement of the cross, there is no restoration of humanity, there is no defeat of the powers, and there is no love revealed.

"Why?

"Because at the heart of penal substitution is a specific understanding of the God-law-sin relationship—or better, a specific theology proper.

"Penal substitution takes seriously the fact that the triune God is alone independent and self-sufficient.

"Specifically, in relation to the moral law, this entails that God does not adjudicate a law external to him; instead, he is the law.

"This is why, in relation to sin, God cannot tolerate sin.

Hab 1:12–13; Art thou not from everlasting, O LORD my God, mine Holy One? we shall not die. O LORD, thou hast ordained them for judgment; and, O mighty God, thou hast established them for correction.

13 Thou art of purer eyes than to behold evil, and canst not look on iniquity: wherefore lookest thou upon them that deal treacherously, and holdest thy tongue when the wicked devoureth the man that is more righteous than he?

Isa 1:4–20; 35:8; 4 Ah sinful nation, a people laden with iniquity, a seed of evildoers, children that are corrupters: they have forsaken the LORD, they have provoked the Holy One of Israel unto anger, they are gone away backward.

5 Why should ye be stricken anymore? ye will revolt more and more: the whole head is sick, and the whole heart faint.

6 From the sole of the foot even unto the head there is no soundness in it; but wounds, and bruises, and putrifying sores: they have not been closed, neither bound up, neither mollified with ointment.

7 Your country is desolate, your cities are burned with fire: your land, strangers devour it in your presence, and it is desolate, as overthrown by strangers.

8 And the daughter of Zion is left as a cottage in a vineyard, as a lodge in a garden of cucumbers, as a besieged city.

9 Except the LORD of hosts had left unto us a very small remnant, we should have been as Sodom, and we should have been like unto Gomorrah.

10 Hear the word of the LORD, ye rulers of Sodom; give ear unto the law of our God, ye people of Gomorrah.

11 To what purpose is the multitude of your sacrifices unto me? saith the LORD: I am full of the burnt offerings of rams, and the fat of fed beasts; and I delight not in the blood of bullocks, or of lambs, or of he goats.

12 When ye come to appear before me, who hath required this at your hand, to tread my courts?

13 Bring no more vain oblations; incense is an abomination unto me; the new moons and sabbaths, the calling of assemblies, I cannot away with; it is iniquity, even the solemn meeting.

14 Your new moons and your appointed feasts my soul hateth: they are a trouble unto me; I am weary to bear them.

15 And when ye spread forth your hands, I will hide mine eyes from you: yea, when ye make many prayers, I will not hear: your hands are full of blood.

16 Wash you, make you clean; put away the evil of your doings from before mine eyes; cease to do evil;

17 Learn to do well; seek judgment, relieve the oppressed, judge the fatherless, plead for the widow.

18 Come now, and let us reason together, saith the LORD: though your sins be as scarlet, they shall be as white as snow; though they be red like crimson, they shall be as wool.

19 If ye be willing and obedient, ye shall eat the good of the land:

20 But if ye refuse and rebel, ye shall be devoured with the sword: for the mouth of the LORD hath spoken it.

35:8 And a highway shall be there, and a way, and it shall be called The way of holiness; the unclean shall not pass over it; but it shall be for those: the wayfaring men, though fools, shall not err therein.

he must act in holy justice against it.

Gen 18:25; That be far from thee to do after this manner, to slay the righteous with the wicked: and that the righteous should be as the wicked, that be far from thee: Shall not the Judge of all the earth do right?

because he cannot deny himself.

con't

 

"And yet, how does God demonstrate his holy justice
and covenant love, given his free decision to redeem us?

Gen 3:15; And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.

Hos 11:9; I will not execute the fierceness of mine anger, I will not return to destroy Ephraim: for I am God, and not man; the Holy One in the midst of thee: and I will not enter into the city.

"In this regard, the Bible’s storyline reveals a tension that’s rooted in who God is vis-à-vis sin.

"This tension is central to the why of the cross.

"Since God is the Law, he cannot forgive us without the full satisfaction of his holy and righteous demand.

Rom 3:21–26; But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;

22 Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:

23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;

24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:

25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;

26 To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.

Heb 9:15–22; And for this cause, he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance.

16 For where a testament is, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator.

17 For a testament is of force after men are dead: otherwise it is of no strength at all while the testator liveth.

18 Whereupon neither the first testament was dedicated without blood.

19 For when Moses had spoken every precept to all the people according to the law, he took the blood of calves and of goats, with water, and scarlet wool, and hyssop, and sprinkled both the book, and all the people,

20 Saying, This is the blood of the testament which God hath enjoined unto you.

21 Moreover he sprinkled with blood both the tabernacle, and all the vessels of the ministry.

22 And almost all things are by the law purged with blood; and without shedding of blood is no remission.

"To justify the ungodly
(Rom 4:5; But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.),
the triune God must take the initiative to provide a Redeemer who can pay for our sin and act in perfect obedience for us.

"Christ must not only be our victor and substitute, but he must also be our penal substitute.

"Ultimately, satisfying God’s justice is central to the cross, and other views of the atonement fail to stress this vital point."

 

Video: The Real History of Penal Substitutionary Atonement - BibleThinker

Here is Gary Williams’ defense of his own work on PSA
in the early church fathers.

 

"For he has made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin;"

that is, the sinless Jesus, Who was made sin,
not inherently, by a transfusion of sin into Him, which His Holy Nature would not admit of;

but imputatively, by a transfer of the guilt of sin unto Him,
by placing the guilt of sin to His account,
and making Him answerable for the guilt of sin;

which was done, not merely at the time of His suffering and death,
though then God openly and manifestly "laid upon him,"
or made to meet on Him, "the iniquity of us all," of all the Lord's people,
when "the chastisement of their peace was on him;"
or the punishment of their sin was inflicted on Him, to make peace for them;

but as early as The Council of Peace was held,
and the above method was concerted and agreed to.

This is beginning to articulate where you're at.

That is the most bazaar thing I've heard in a while.

Those verses don't intend to teach about salvation, by substitution, but the crucified lifestyle of the crucified flesh, after salvation, by the power of the Holy Spirit indwelling enablement.

This we know, so far; from How Does Penal Substitution Relate to Other Atonement Theories? "Of all the atonement theologies, only penal substitution best captures the God-centered nature of the cross. The alternatives either minimize or deny that God’s holy justice is essential to him, why our sin is first against God(Ps 51:4), and why Christ as our penal substitute is central to the cross.

"Before we can speak of the horizontal entailments of the cross, we must first speak of the vertical—namely the triune God, in his Son, taking his own demand on himself so that we, in Christ, may be justified before him (Rom 5:1–2).

"Other atonement views either miss or undermine this point. For them, the object of the cross is either our sin (forms of recapitulation), or Satan (ransom theory), or the powers (forms of Christus Victor). But what they fail to see is that the primary person we have sinned against is our great and glorious triune Creator and Lord, and as such, the ultimate object of the cross is God himself."