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Featured Christ's Sheep Have Eternal Life NOW

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by KenH, Jul 7, 2023.

  1. KenH

    KenH Well-Known Member

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    "And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand." John 10:28

    The Lord says, "I give unto them (that is, my sheep) eternal life;" not, "I will give them in the life to come; but I give it unto them now." We therefore read, "He that believes on the Son has everlasting life"--has it now, as a present, felt, and enjoyed possession. This life is given manifestly when Christ reveals himself to the soul; for eternal life is then received out of his fullness as an enjoyed possession. All, then, who have truly fled for refuge, to lay hold of the hope set before them, embrace in so doing eternal life. They live, as being manifestly in Christ, for he is "our life;" and as they embrace it in him they feel its sweet movements in their breast, in the joy it communicates, in the peace it imparts, in the prospects it opens, in the doubts it removes, in the fears it disperses.

    Thus, in real religion, there is something, if I may so speak, tangible, something to be laid hold of; and this distinguishes a good hope through grace from every other hope which is delusive, enthusiastic, or visionary. Depend upon it, there is a reality in vital godliness, a possession for eternity, which, therefore, kills and deadens the living child of God to a perishing world, and the fading things of time and sense. Whenever we get a view of Christ, there is a view of eternal life in him; for he is the eternal Son of God, and when he makes himself known to the soul as such, he shows us that all our life is in him.

    The work that he accomplished is for eternity; he lives himself forever and ever; and those whom he has redeemed by his blood, justified by his righteousness, and sanctified by his grace, will live forever and ever in his glorious presence. It is the eternity of his love which stamps it with its main value and blessedness; for this life being eternal, secures not only perpetuity, but immutability, prevents it from any change in time as well as from any change in eternity, and secures it firm and stable to all the heirs of promise. As, then, they lay hold of eternal life in laying hold of him who is the life, and as the sweet movements of hope spring up in their breast, it opens before their eyes a vista of immortal joy.

    - J.C. Philpot, Through Baca's Vale, July 7
     
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  2. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    John 10:27-28 , ". . . My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, . . ."
     
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  3. JD731

    JD731 Well-Known Member

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    Do not mix the metaphors of the scriptures. These words in John 10 were spoken to a select audience who were under a covenant relationship with God as a people by mutual agreement.


    Exodus 19:3-7
    3 And Moses went up unto God, and the LORD called unto him out of the mountain, saying, Thus shalt thou say to the house of Jacob, and tell the children of Israel;
    4 Ye have seen what I did unto the Egyptians, and how I bare you on eagles' wings, and brought you unto myself.
    5 Now therefore, if ye will obey my voice indeed, and keep my covenant, then ye shall be a peculiar treasure unto me above all people: for all the earth is mine:
    6 And ye shall be unto me a kingdom of priests, and an holy nation. These are the words which thou shalt speak unto the children of Israel.
    7 And Moses came and called for the elders of the people, and laid before their faces all these words which the LORD commanded him.

    The answer of the people.

    Exodus 19:8
    And all the people answered together, and said, All that the LORD hath spoken we will do. And Moses returned the words of the people unto the LORD.

    This is the institution of the Mosaic covenant and would be for the purpose of a disciplinary and instructive document because of the sins of Israel . It was not a stand alone covenant but was temporary with a defined ending when the promised seed of Abraham, who will take away their sins, would come.It was an addendum to the everlasting and immutable Abrahamic covenant wherein was the promise of the seed of the woman through this nation.


    Galatians 4:4-6
    4 But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law,
    5 To redeem them that were under the law, that we might receive the adoption of sons.
    6 And because ye are sons, God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father.

    The addendum

    Galatians 3:16-19
    16 Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.
    17 And this I say, that the covenant, that was confirmed before of God in Christ, the law, which was four hundred and thirty years after (the ABRAHAMIC COVENANT), cannot disannul, that it should make the promise of none effect.
    18 For if the inheritance be of the law, it is no more of promise: but God gave it to Abraham by promise.

    Follow the logic!

    The law as the operative principle of his divine dealing with Israel ended with Jesus Christ.

    19 Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator.


    Romans 10:4
    For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.

    It was at this time that God spoke in person to the Hebrews to prepare them for the fulfillment of the entire Abrahamic Covenant by introducing a new and better covenant than the Mosaic covenant by which he would not just require the perfect righteousness but would provide it through the person of Jesus Christ. The nation received the Mosaic covenant but they would not receive the new covenant because of the person, Jesus Christ. (WE WILL NOT HAVE THIS MAN TO RULE OVER US) God gave them 40 years to decide. History, as well as the Bible tells us this.


    Hebrews 1:1-2
    1 God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,
    2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;

    Does anyone get it?

    This brings me to the sheep metaphor. Israel is the sheep nation. Jesus Christ is their Good, and Great, and Chief Shepherd. Gentiles are never referred to as sheep, even in the 13 letters Paul wrote to gentiles and the churches.

    Jesus Christ is not a shepherd to his church, he is the elder Brother who has the heavenly inheritance he wills to share equally with each of his brethren, making them joint-heirs.

    Jeremiah 50:17
    Israel is a scattered sheep; the lions have driven him away: first the king of Assyria hath devoured him; and last this Nebuchadrezzar king of Babylon hath broken his bones.
    .
    John 1:11-13
    11 He came unto his own, and his own received him not.
    12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:
    13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

    This means not born into the family of Abraham. The context is his own, Israelites of whom he was a member through his mother.


    Matthew 15:22-24
    22 And, behold, a woman of Canaan came out of the same coasts, and cried unto him, saying, Have mercy on me, O Lord, thou Son of David; my daughter is grievously vexed with a devil.
    23 But he answered her not a word. And his disciples came and besought him, saying, Send her away; for she crieth after us.
    24 But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.


    Consider the scriptures and time and prophesy and words and context when formulating your theology. Use logic and reason and common sense.
     
  4. KenH

    KenH Well-Known Member

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    The entire Bible is about Christ and His gospel and the salvation of His sheep, given to Him by His Father before the foundation of the world to be their Surety and to fulfill ALL of the conditions for their salvation - their sins being imputed to Him and His perfect righteousness being imputed to them.

    John 5:39 Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me.

    Luke 24:27 And beginning at Moses and all the prophets, he expounded unto them in all the scriptures the things concerning himself.

    2 Corinthians 5:21 For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.
     
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  5. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    Jesus spoke these words to whom were NOT His sheep, John 10:26 . . . , ". . . But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, . . ."
     
  6. JD731

    JD731 Well-Known Member

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    He spoke these things to these scribes and Pharisees, and rulers of Israel, who rejected him for the nation. The final showdown was in Matthew 11 and 12. Here they began to conspire to put him to death. It was here that this generation of Israelites were prophetically condemned to 40 years probationary time until they all died, or were killed by Titus and his army.

    The metaphors that are established in the old testament are fulfilled in the new testament.


    Matthew 12:31-32
    31 Wherefore I say unto you, All manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men: but the blasphemy against the Holy Ghost shall not be forgiven unto men.
    32 And whosoever speaketh a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but whosoever speaketh against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, neither in the world to come.

    The word world is aion meaning age. They were having this conversation in the end of the age of law, and the world to come began at his resurrection. This is the age of the spirit when God would have birthed the nation but they refused. This is equivalent to Moses, leading the children of Israel into salvation, and they refused. They wandered in the wilderness for 40 years until they were all dead except two.

    at the end of the generation of Jesus Christ, which is 70 years according to psalm 90 verse 10, the nation was dead, and God used Titus, to bury it in the nations of the world as he dispersed the Jewish citizens out of the land of Canaan. From that point on the church of Jesus Christ, composed by a believing remnant of Jews, and believing Gentiles took on a distinct gentile character. It is a fulfillment of the metaphor set in the Old Testament of a Jewish king and a gentile bride.

    God has raised his nation from the dead in 1948 a resurrection that he has promised in both Old Testament and New Testament, but they are not saved. He will purge them of all rebels, and establish his kingdom over them, and through them into the rest of the world very soon.

    The church is the gentle bride of Christ, and Israel is the estranged wife of Jehovah God, who has been separated from him through divorce, and will one day be cleansed, and presented it to him as his wife once again, only this time in perfect righteousness.


    This is the truth.
     
  7. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    John 11:47-51, ". . . Then gathered the chief priests and the Pharisees a council, and said, What do we? for this man doeth many miracles. If we let him thus alone, all men will believe on him: and the Romans shall come and take away both our place and nation. And one of them, named Caiaphas, being the high priest that same year, said unto them, Ye know nothing at all, Nor consider that it is expedient for us, that one man should die for the people, and that the whole nation perish not. And this spake he not of himself: but being high priest that year, he prophesied that Jesus should die for that nation; . . ."
     
  8. KenH

    KenH Well-Known Member

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    Nope. It is your false theology, your fantasy, your nonsense, and it is unsupported by the Word of God.
     
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  9. JD731

    JD731 Well-Known Member

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    there were no sheep until there was a nation of Israel, which God formed of the chosen seed of Abraham in the beginning of the third millennium of human history.

    However, there were men who were justified by their faith from the very beginning of Human history, which proves that one does not have to be a sheep to be saved and that he does not become a sheep when he is.

    you greatly err.
     
  10. JD731

    JD731 Well-Known Member

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    Point???
     
  11. KenH

    KenH Well-Known Member

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    Christ died only for His sheep. Christ did not die for the goats. Only Christ's sheep are saved as there is no salvation for anyone whom did not die for and bear their sins through imputation.
     
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  12. KenH

    KenH Well-Known Member

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    In a another thread you said that you do not believe that God is sovereign: "The word sovereignty is not a Bible word nor is it a Bible concept."

    Since you don't believe that God is sovereign, then surely you can't have any confidence that what you wrote in the quote at the start of this post will actually happen.
     
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  13. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    Where does God say that?

    He doesn't.


    2 Peter 2:1, ". . . But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction. . . ."

    Jude 1:4, ". . . For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ. . . ."
     
  14. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    Christ gave His soul for His sheep to secure for them eternal life.
     
  15. KenH

    KenH Well-Known Member

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    Christ shed His blood for His sheep.
     
  16. KenH

    KenH Well-Known Member

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    Yes, He did.

    John 10:11 I am the good shepherd: the good shepherd giveth his life for the sheep.

    John 10:15 As the Father knoweth me, even so know I the Father: and I lay down my life for the sheep.

    John 10:27-28 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: and I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.

    (emphasis mine)
     
  17. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    Not in dispute.
     
  18. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    Nowhere does it say He gave His soul only for His sheep. 1 John 5:9-13, ". . .
    If we receive the witness of men, the witness of God is greater: for this is the witness of God which he hath testified of his Son. He that believeth on the Son of God hath the witness in himself: he that believeth not God hath made him a liar; because he believeth not the record that God gave of his Son. And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life. These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God. . . ."
     
  19. KenH

    KenH Well-Known Member

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    Yes, He did. Otherwise, you are claiming that Christ shed His blood in vain.

    Matthew 25:33 And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left.

    Matthew 25:41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire.

    (emphasis mine)
     
  20. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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