I am a Baptist

[Piper]

Meaning, I believe that only believers should be baptized.

And that congregational rule is the most normative. However, I do believe that Elders rule in some sense through their teaching and preaching.

And that separation of Church and state is correct, that Christian Nationalism is not how we should view the world, but that the world will get worse and worse and then Jesus will return.

I believe a lot of other things, but those I find to be definitive of baptist vs., say, E Free or lutheran.

 

[Salty]

So, are you currently a member of a local Baptist church?

 

[Piper]

So, are you currently a member of a local Baptist church?

Yes.

 

[Van]

Soul liberty is a Baptist distinctive of General Baptists, but not of Reformed Baptists or Particular Baptists.

 

[JonC]

I was just about to mention soul liberty, @Van . You beat me too it.

I'd place Reformed Baptists between Presbyterian and Baptist. Most have elder rule (which is not Baptist) and reject soul liberty, at least to some degree. So they are not, technically, congregational. But they do hold to the autonomy of the local church.

 

[RipponRedeaux]

There are so many varieties of Baptists. When someone says "Oh, you're Baptist" they have absolutely no idea about the subject.
Presbyterians are a diverse lot with PCUSA's at one end and the OPC at the other. But their diversity is nothing compared with the 'variety' of Baptist sects.
I do think that Conservative Presbyterians and Particular Baptists should share pulpits once in a while. Obviously some guidelines should be in place because our disagreements over a few issues.

 

[Van]

I was just about to mention soul liberty, @Van . You beat me too it.

I'd place Reformed Baptists between Presbyterian and Baptist. Most have elder rule (which is not Baptist) and reject soul liberty, at least to some degree. So they are not, technically, congregational. But they do hold to the autonomy of the local church.

Yes, I agree, Reformed (Calvinist) Baptists fall between Presbyterian and General Baptists. They share many biblical beliefs with Baptists, but certainly disagree with several beliefs held by "other" Baptists.

If Elders report to and are periodically elected and reelected to their leadership office, then that form may be used in "Baptist" local churches. Elder-ship provides day to day executive authority, but major decisions, i.e. staffing and budget and real property transactions, usually are reserved for the congregational vote. A top down structure is not Baptist.

 

[RipponRedeaux]

There are a number of denominations without the word Baptist in the name of particular churches. However, they are Baptistic in practice. Examples would include the CMA and EFCA.or even the Plymouth Brethren assemblies (who don't call themselves that title).

 

[Salty]

There are a number of denominations without the word Baptists in the name of particular churches. However, they are Baptistic in practice. Examples would include the CMA and EFCA.or even the Plymouth Brethren assemblies (who don't call themselves that title).

The Plymouth Brethren - aka PB -- which actually means Partly Baptist!

 

[kyredneck]

Soul liberty is a Baptist distinctive of General Baptists, but not of Reformed Baptists or Particular Baptists.

I was just about to mention soul liberty, @Van . You beat me too it.

I'd place Reformed Baptists between Presbyterian and Baptist. Most have elder rule (which is not Baptist) and reject soul liberty, at least to some degree. So they are not, technically, congregational. But they do hold to the autonomy of the local church.

This doesn't qualify as 'soul liberty'? It's definitely 'Reformed'.

"The Bible is a plain book. It is intelligible by the people. And they have the right, and are bound to read and interpret it for themselves; so that their faith may rest on the testimony of the Scriptures, and not on that of the Church. Such is the doctrine of Protestants on this subject."
Perspicuity of the Scriptures. The Right of Private Judgment | Monergism

 

[Piper]

The Plymouth Brethren - aka PB -- which actually means Partly Baptist!

Truth. Many of them follow the Grace Theological Seminary aka Ryrie, Hodges, on salvation and sanctification. The Free Grace movement.

But I have many friends in PB churches who are Calvinistic.

 

[Van]

This doesn't fall into the category of 'soul liberty'? It's definitely 'Reformed'.

"The Bible is a plain book. It is intelligible by the people. And they have the right, and are bound to read and interpret it for themselves; so that their faith may rest on the testimony of the Scriptures, and not on that of the Church. Such is the doctrine of Protestants on this subject."
Perspicuity of the Scriptures. The Right of Private Judgment | Monergism

Does anyone know what "this" is in the above post? If a person suffers from "total spiritual inability" their right to "private judgment" would be without any understanding of scripture. So the statement simply claims one thing while meaning another.

 

[Salty]

Truth. Many of them follow the Grace Theological Seminary aka Ryrie, Hodges, on salvation and sanctification. The Free Grace movement.

But I have many friends who are Calvinistic.

You are friends with Calvinists??
I thought BB had a rule about that????

 

[Piper]

You are friends with Calvinists??
I thought BB had a rule about that????

Sorry, edited. I'd have to admit that John Piper is my friend.

 

[JonC]

This doesn't qualify as 'soul liberty'? It's definitely 'Reformed'.

"The Bible is a plain book. It is intelligible by the people. And they have the right, and are bound to read and interpret it for themselves; so that their faith may rest on the testimony of the Scriptures, and not on that of the Church. Such is the doctrine of Protestants on this subject."
Perspicuity of the Scriptures. The Right of Private Judgment | Monergism

Reformed Baptists have a high regard for Scripture, but they also have a high regard for Presbyterian doctrine in addition to Scripture. They are defined by the latter.

What I mean is that a Reformed Baptist does not hold "soul liberty" in that all doctrines not specifically present in Scripture are a matter of personal conviction.

For example - If you join a Baptist Church you may believe in Penal Substitution Theory, Ransom Theory, Moral Influence Theory, or something else. If you join a Reformed Baptist Church you hold Penal Substitution Theory.

 

[RipponRedeaux]

Truth. Many of them follow the Grace Theological Seminary aka Ryrie, Hodges, on salvation and sanctification. The Free Grace movement.

But I have many friends in PB churches who are Calvinistic.

J.N. Darby, the founder of the PBs and William Kelly, the #2 man in the group were strong Calvinists. CHS extolled the latter. And don't forget George Muller, that ardent man of faith. Spurgeon and he were friends.

 

[Piper]

Reformed Baptists have a high regard for Scripture, but they also have a high regard for Presbyterian doctrine in addition to Scripture. They are defined by the latter.

What I mean is that a Reformed Baptist does not hold "soul liberty" in that all doctrines not specifically present in Scripture are a matter of personal conviction.

For example - If you join a Baptist Church you may believe in Penal Substitution Theory, Ransom Theory, Moral Influence Theory, or something else. If you join a Reformed Baptist Church you hold Penal Substitution Theory.

Wow, you don't know what you are talking about. One is not required to believe it to join the 3 Reformed Baptist churches I have been a member of.

 

[Piper]

J.N. Darby, the founder of the PBs and William Kelly, the #2 man in the group were strong Calvinists. CHS extolled the latter. And don't forget George Muller, that ardent man of faith. Spurgeon and he were friends.

I know. I've read both of their (darby and Kelly) stories. As well as Mueller and Spurgeon.

 

[JonC]

Wow, you don't know what you are talking about. One is not required to believe it to join the 3 Reformed Baptist churches I have been a member of.

I don't mean "required to believe". I mean hold it. What I mean is teaching it as if it were Scripture (as if it were true).

In Baptist churches there is typically the clarification "this is my understanding, but weigh it against Scripture". Reformed Baptist theology is dependent on the theory because it is dependent on Presbyterian doctrine.

 

[Piper]

I don't mean "required to believe". I mean hold it. What I mean is teaching it as if it were Scripture (as if it were true).

In Baptist churches there is typically the clarification "this is my understanding, but weigh it against Scripture". Reformed Baptist theology is dependent on the theory because it is dependent on Presbyterian doctrine.

You're actually funny. I laughed out loud.